Amtrak Grand Central Terminal Operations

As confirmed by New Haven/Northeastern Region General Order No. 312, effective Monday, September 21, 1970 all the trains presently operating between Grand Central Terminal and Boston with the exception of the Turbo Trains were moved from Grand Central Terminal to Penn Station that date. This is also confirmed by Passenger Service Notice no. A-4395. I have copies of all of the above in my collection to back this up. As for the Turbo Trains Northeastern Region General Order no. 409 effective Monday, February 1, 1971 moved the Turbo Trains from Grand Central Terminal to Penn Station and this made the transfer of all New York - Boston trains complete. I also have all public timetables through this entire period which all agree as to dates mentioned here. All of these changes took place before the start up of Amtrak later in 1971.
Noel Weaver

My very first Amtrak ride was at age 4 riding a Turbo into from SDY to GCT in 1989...I still have strong memories of that trip. When I took Amtrak to NYP, gosh, 15 years later, it felt weird not making that left turn before the Spuyten Duyvil bridge and going straight.

I remember one Amtrak assistant conductor I used to see on the Maple Leaf told me Amtrak was considering adding two trains that would of made all stops before and not including Poughkeepsie that would of gone into Grand Central. Ticketing would of just been QuikTrak machines installed at GCT and of course, no luggage service or food service, to keep things simple and not require duplicaiting services at NYP. The only thing he said was holding back this idea was the NYC MTA said if they did that, they would have to give up two slots at NYP for the LIRR to I guess somehow balance things out. And obviously, this idea is dead in the water, as that was back in 2005.

As detailed above by Mr. Weaver, it was Penn Central, not Amtrak, that switched former New Haven RR intercity trains from Grand Central to Penn Station. The move was intended to save money by eliminating the need to service corridor trains at GCT (stocking food service cars, etc.) and I suspect that any increased convenience for passengers was a byproduct. Traditionally, most NH trains from Boston and Springfield used GCT, with Penn Station being reserved for through trains operated with the Pennsylvania RR to points south. The NH also charged different fares into GCT and Penn, with the latter being slightly higher.

belive there was a .90 charge listed a hell gate bridge charge on tickets to Penn station

The fare between New York and Boston was the same whether it was used out of Grand Central Terminal or Penn Station. Where the higher fare took effect was in through tickets from a point on the New Haven Railroad to a point on the Pennsylvania Railroad via Hell Gate Bridge. A passenger who knew the ins and outs could always buy a separate ticket from lets say Boston to New York and New York to Washington and not have to pay that surcharce for riding over Hell Gate Bridge. I believe this continued all through the life of the New Haven Railroad until day one of Penn Central. As for moving the Boston trains out of Grand Central Terminal, this made sense because all New York - Boston trains now left from the same station and it was much better for through passengers who did not happen to be riding one of the Washington - Boston trains. It also made it easier for Penn Central to simplify their motive power issues, they wanted the FL-9's for the Harlem and Hudson commuter service and by moving the Boston trains to Penn Station they were able to use GG-1's on all of them which happened on day one of the move. They also released the FL-9's from east of New Haven and replaced them with former Pennsylvania E-8's which could run on the New Haven to Boston. The Central's E units were not able to run to Boston as lead units due to the lack of cab signals, all in all it was a win win for all.
Noel Weaver

Another reason to split your ticket over New York was that PRR customs applied to the through Hell Gate Bridge Route fares, and PRR didn't have a discount round trip fare good for less than 17 days. New Haven did on their own road, it was 25 cents more than the full 1 way fare, although not available for very short trips. I think that it was good for 4 days.

I suspect you are thinking of the 2 day round trip which the New Haven had right up until the very last day but Penn Central killed the day they took over.
Noel Weaver

bwparker1 wrote:Did Amtrak ever bring trains into Grand Central Terminal?

Yes. Up until 1991, Grand Central was the only place in Midtown Manhattan that you could see a Turboliner or an EMD FL9.

Allow me to note that the Amtrak ticket cage was at the East end of the existing MNR cage where it turns towards the Waiting Room; hence the Amtrak windows were facing East; the existing MNR face North (passenger facing South) . Those were the former New York Central windows.

The New Haven windows were to the East, and last time I checked were rented to the Off Track Betting outlet.

Each road had their separate agencies; however at 125th St (isn't that called Harlem nowadays), there was a Joint Agency with NYC employees issuing Joint Agency tickets for either road.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:...
Each road had their separate agencies; however at 125th St (isn't that called Harlem nowadays), ...

It's Harlem-125th Street.

It might be that today but in the days of the New York Central and New Haven Railroads it was simply 125th Street.........
Noel Weaver

amtrakowitz wrote:

bwparker1 wrote:Did Amtrak ever bring trains into Grand Central Terminal?

Yes. Up until 1991, Grand Central was the only place in Midtown Manhattan that you could see a Turboliner or an EMD FL9.

Not so, the New Haven ran FL-9's in and out of Penn Station on a regular basis especially as the "Jets" bit the dust one by one in the 60's. In fact sometimes with the same crew a train would run from New Haven to Penn Station with a pair of FL-9's and upon arrival the crew would change ends and run the pair of FL-9's out to New Rochelle, change ends again and go to Grand Central Terminal to cover a morning train out. This was a regular move on a couple of night jobs. This practice ended almost immediately after Penn Central took over the New Haven as the FL-9's were wanted for Harlem and Hudson trains and they made the shoes stationary at that time which precluded their use in or out of Penn Station.
Noel Weaver

I know we're getting further O/T here, but -- Noel, FL-9's operated in diesel mode when going through the ER tubes into PS?

No, Noel is saying that PennCentral stopped running FL-9s into Penn Station when their 3rd rail shoes were changed so they could no longer run electrically on both Grand Central and Penn Station 3rd rail. Today, Amtrak must physically change the shoes if they want to run their dual mode locomotives into the other terminal.

Thank you Jim.