Amtrak Diner and Food Service Discussion

Hell, I'd probably honor the picket line.

Forbes reports that two Delta crafts - Attendants and Fleet Service that are presently Non-Agreement will be holding representation elections to certify a union to represent them.

Delta has traditionally had fewer crafts than any "major" working without Agreements. When they merged with Northwest, they successfully "busted" Agreement employees such as Attendants.

I defer to readers to decide whether or not the Employees should be successful.

Finally, I find it interesting how Mr. Anderson was with Delta at the time of the merger. Now he may be up to some "Union Busting" with the ASWC by seeking proposals to contract out on-board service activities.

Didn't hear much grumbling when the chefs jobs were eliminated.

That was a service change. Displaced personnel were able to bid into jobs elsewhere. This would be wholesale termination. Read up on the Railway Labor Act and you'll see why the bargaining dynamic is completely different than in industries covered by the FLSA.

Mr Anderson is planning to convert the SW Chief to the "Panera Bread" food service style in Nov,that should find a few more Chefs bumping off other
chefs on trains with full style food service,there's been menu changes on the Coast Starlight that didn't go well with the passengers.
There are too many times of "running out of stock" on the LD trains that should not be happening,could Aramark be under orders to NOT fully stock
the diners/food service cars to cut down spoilage problems?
Under the "Panera Bread" model ,there seems to be more wasted food at the trips end,than regular food service style.

Can anyone recall how much notice was given for the eastern train dining cuts? Was it April to June?

May need to take my first and last trip on this train as well.

Backshophoss wrote:Mr Anderson is planning to convert the SW Chief to the "Panera Bread" food service style in Nov,that should find a few more Chefs bumping off other
chefs on trains with full style food service,there's been menu changes on the Coast Starlight that didn't go well with the passengers.
There are too many times of "running out of stock" on the LD trains that should not be happening,could Aramark be under orders to NOT fully stock
the diners/food service cars to cut down spoilage problems?
Under the "Panera Bread" model ,there seems to be more wasted food at the trips end,than regular food service style.

Fuck it.. he really does want to drive people away from the trains.

Backshophoss wrote:Mr Anderson is planning to convert the SW Chief to the "Panera Bread" food service style in Nov,that should find a few more Chefs bumping off other
chefs on trains with full style food service,there's been menu changes on the Coast Starlight that didn't go well with the passengers.
There are too many times of "running out of stock" on the LD trains that should not be happening,could Aramark be under orders to NOT fully stock
the diners/food service cars to cut down spoilage problems?
Under the "Panera Bread" model ,there seems to be more wasted food at the trips end,than regular food service style.

I highly doubt it. These contracts usually have the client (Amtrak) paying Aramark a flat fee for provisions. My guess is Aramark probably low bid it. The understocking seems more like a classic supply chain issue with Aramark, they probably can't source enough product cheap enough to be profitable so they chose to tell Amtrak "bummer" instead of taking the loss. There's a reason Amtrak is looking seriously at how to get out from the Aramark contract, it's just not working and the quality of the product is poor.

Amtrak can always order more food. It isn’t like Aramark doesn’t have football field-sized warehouses full of food ready to ship. Amtrak can’t blame the delivery drivers either - drivers can only short the customer so much food before they get caught and fired. Either:
1) Amtrak’s demand model is wrong (expected transactions, expected types of food)
2) its pricing model is wrong (charging too little -or too much-)
3) its labor & overhead costs are too high
4) its dining cars aren’t meeting the target transactions per hour, not even close
5) it has an insane amount of waste (spoilage, damage, incorrect prep, expiration) or shrink (theft, staff meals, samples, service recovery aka “I want to talk to the manager” free food)
6) they can’t store all the required meals on the train, under refrigeration or not
7) and/or, it is paying too much for product from Aramark.

For the McAmtrak Unhappy Meal box, take away factors 2 and 4, but the others apply.

Amtrak is mandated by Congress to eliminate food service losses.

Suburban Station wrote:Amtrak is mandated by Congress to eliminate food service losses.

Yes, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat. The free meal boxes just push that line item into the sleeper amenities column and out of the FBS column.

mtuandrew wrote:

Suburban Station wrote:Amtrak is mandated by Congress to eliminate food service losses.

Yes, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat. The free meal boxes just push that line item into the sleeper amenities column and out of the FBS column.

I had hoped to see more experimentation. Seems to me a chef and an lsa could provide decent short order service with longer hours and self service. That said the requirement means drastic changes

One benefit of the boxed meals, they are ready to go. It is pointed out in this article that in some cases it allows service where even a chef provided diner can't.
But Really , Amtrak management and workers need to get on the same page, to stop the need for "improvisations" like this been required.

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Suburban Station wrote:I had hoped to see more experimentation. Seems to me a chef and an lsa could provide decent short order service with longer hours and self service. That said the requirement means drastic changes

I had too.

Perhaps this has been considered, but I would like to see Amtrak experiment with a new pairing: a full cafe/lounge car on the coach side (the Viewliner, set up as a grill-cafe-lounge) and a half-table, half-business car on the sleeper side (currently, an Amfleet.) Full meals only served on the table car side, snacks and prepackaged convection oven-heated food served in the Viewliner.

mtuandrew wrote:Food service has lousy margins, lousier when on a moving train with Unionized employees, but prepared beverages like espresso drinks, blended stuff, and alcohol can make up a lot of the difference. Also, microwave-convection ovens are a wonderful labor-saving device that will perfectly heat parcooked/sous vide items like a sandwich, bowl of soup, side of veggies, or even a steak, breast, or chop. Amtrak is overthinking its meal offerings something fierce, and ignoring choices that would be really popular.

Food in general typically has descent margins; its "plating" and serving it that drives the margins down.

Absolutely correct on beverages. Alcoholic mixed drinks, beer, and coffee/tea varieties have great margins and this DID makeup a lot of the loss from general food service. Not that I am trying to promote alcohol, but fact remains it's a small portion overall of Amtrak's current sales when compared to other players in travel/service organization. Rocky and VIA both keep the bar tab! VIA rail capitalizes the best on this within their Park Dome Car - days and night! It's the party place to be in the off-season! I think the same could be said back in the day on any private railroad's "lounge car." They needed and wanted the bar tab to make the profit. It's VIA's Ocean train that really has the best of both worlds - no chefs, prepared food is loaded on so it can be re-heated only in the adjacent Service Cars (the Westin Nova Scotian next to the Halifax Train Station works out REALLY well), the diner is all decked out with linens and china to offer some ambiance, and alcohol/mixed drinks flow very regularly from the Service Cars and Park Car. Amtrak can't compare. I am willing to bet VIA's doing better with total F&B net income/loss on the Ocean than any LD Amtrak train.

Food and Beverage is also a hot commodity right now for the experiential travel experience. The train has a changing landscape as an advantage.

I've done the Empire Builder and its late arrival into Chicago MANY times. Sometimes the lateness is added or compounded between Milwaukee and Chicago. If the Empire Builder will get in before 9 pm at night, they will not serve dinner and most of the time the food courts at Chicago Union Station are closed by then. Saturday or Sunday - forget it!!! And then board the Lake Shore and the line in the cafe till it closes is usually ridiculous. This has been a problem for decades!!! The staff is already onboard, as is the food, why not try to serve it leaving Chicago and even inbound to NYC eastbound when the LSL is running late! Dinner along the Hudson? Yes, you can grab a better dinner in NYC perhaps, but here too - connecting passengers often lose out.

If Amtrak is to continue with F&B service on long distance trains, an overhaul is needed from loading the food, the offering of food, preparation and staff, paying for the food, inventory control, and the technology used (or lack thereof) in the whole process. Try to gain efficiencies and get the sale; often this requires more flexibility than the rigidness that Amtrak currently exhibits. Often times it's one large lunch seating with limited options for those arriving into Chicago on the EB or the Bay Area on the CZ and the trains have the greatest number of people onboard at this point. Lost sales.......