Amtrak considering Bi-levels for NE Corridor

bostontrainguy wrote:

timz wrote:

bostontrainguy wrote:Does anyone know the clearance on the West Side Connection?

The 2010 timetable puts it in the 15-6 category north of Empire but 14-8 thru the tunnel. 1954 Line Clearances says 17-3 from the end of the line (St Johns Park terminal) to Spuyten Duyvil (tho I don't see how a 17-3 car would proceed beyond Spuyten Duyvil).

That's very interesting. Maybe the "new" Amtrak connecting tunnel to NYP is only 14' 8"? But the actual route could have maybe been Superliner/dome capable if the planning had been a bit different? Could the higher clearances be restored? Whatever was added since 1954 could probably be removed or modified. Domes on the Adirondack would be a no-brainer!

The tunnel is a very snug fit from what i saw. No bench walls, just solid concrete wall right next to your window. Plus there is catenary up to just outside of the north end. The line north of that is fairly open from what i saw, there may have been a few low spots on the south end of the west side line. The rest is a massive cavern under west side park. The area where that dock yard used to be just north of 60th st is still kind of there, just a long dark tunnel to nowhere. Pretty fascinating place down there!

25Hz wrote:The tunnel is a very snug fit from what i saw. No bench walls, just solid concrete wall right next to your window. Plus there is catenary up to just outside of the north end. The line north of that is fairly open from what i saw, there may have been a few low spots on the south end of the west side line. The rest is a massive cavern under west side park. The area where that dock yard used to be just north of 60th st is still kind of there, just a long dark tunnel to nowhere. Pretty fascinating place down there!

When was the last time you were over there? The old yard area has been completely replaced with parkland and a southern extension of Riverside Drive. The only trace of the NYC left is the 60th Street float bridge, which is apparently a national historic landmark. My girlfriend and I were over there checking it out last Sunday and she got some great pictures of the old float bridge silhoutted against the sunset. Very strange how much that area has changed in the past 10yrs.

timz wrote:

bostontrainguy wrote:Does anyone know the clearance on the West Side Connection?

The 2010 timetable puts it in the 15-6 category north of Empire but 14-8 thru the tunnel. 1954 Line Clearances says 17-3 from the end of the line (St Johns Park terminal) to Spuyten Duyvil (tho I don't see how a 17-3 car would proceed beyond Spuyten Duyvil).

I just read that as part of the Oak Point Link project, TOFC clearances were included all the way to Selkirk, so it's certainly possible today.

NYP is still only 14'6" for equipment so why are we discussing freight clearances, lets stick with subject.

DutchRailnut wrote:NYP is still only 14'6" for equipment so why are we discussing freight clearances . . . .

Because we want too.

Mod Note: No. We try to stay on topic here. This is not a "for the people by the people" effort, and you should probably take a minute to read the rules before being so cool as to make dumb comments like this.

Bi-levels on the NEC? My initial reaction was no...where would the baggage go? But then other countries operate intercity bi-level equipment. How do they handle luggage carrying travelers? The weight and maximum possible speed of such rolling stock are issues too.

This is a very interesting and thought provoking discussion.

with current ADA laws the chances of Bi levels other than commuter service is nill, zero, zilts. no way.

DutchRailnut wrote:with current ADA laws the chances of Bi levels other than commuter service is nill, zero, zilts. no way.

You mean on the NEC right? There are plans to put bi-levels onto certain California and Midwest services in the next few years.

again those services are concidered Commuter services, not Long Distance or NEC services of over 2 hours.

DutchRailnut wrote:again those services are concidered Commuter services, not Long Distance or NEC services of over 2 hours.

http://www.annarbor.com/news/michigan-a ... ith-wi-fi/
I wouldn't consider a service from Chicago, IL to Pontiac, MI a commuter service.

DutchRailnut wrote:with current ADA laws the chances of Bi levels other than commuter service is nill, zero, zilts. no way.

What about Amtrak is so special that they'd have accessibility issues puchasing bi-levels? All bi-levels in manufacture today have fully accessible seating. No one would be allowed to buy them if they didn't. If someone has accessibility needs and needs access to the diner car or something, that's what priority seating on the adjacent cars is for.

What works in Europe doesn't translate well in US style railroading,the same thing holds true on passenger car design,
throw in ADA access requirements and FRA mandated crashworthyness,the european designs just can't cut it.
If BBD doesn't have the means of recreating the Amfleet shell,the best bet will be a coach/lounge varient of
the Viewliner shell,which has already passed the basic ADA and FRA requirements.
For the long haul,this will be the easiest way to replace the "eastern low level fleet" and the NEC "non-Acela"
regional fleet

morris&essex4ever wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote:with current ADA laws the chances of Bi levels other than commuter service is nill, zero, zilts. no way.

You mean on the NEC right? There are plans to put bi-levels onto certain California and Midwest services in the next few years.

Aren't those also in the model of the Superliners, where once you're on the upper level, you have full, free access to the entire train?

3rd Gen Superliners/Surfliners will be ADA compliant on the lower level,the basic needs have been met,food and beverage service would tended to
by the car attendents.
I don't think they added an elevator to the design specs!
Just took a look a a post in the 8400 thread,if you can move around with a walker,cruches,cane and get up the stairs then you have free run of the train,
power wheelchairs may be stuck in the lower level,but all restrooms are on the lower level

Ridgefielder wrote:

25Hz wrote:The tunnel is a very snug fit from what i saw. No bench walls, just solid concrete wall right next to your window. Plus there is catenary up to just outside of the north end. The line north of that is fairly open from what i saw, there may have been a few low spots on the south end of the west side line. The rest is a massive cavern under west side park. The area where that dock yard used to be just north of 60th st is still kind of there, just a long dark tunnel to nowhere. Pretty fascinating place down there!

When was the last time you were over there? The old yard area has been completely replaced with parkland and a southern extension of Riverside Drive. The only trace of the NYC left is the 60th Street float bridge, which is apparently a national historic landmark. My girlfriend and I were over there checking it out last Sunday and she got some great pictures of the old float bridge silhoutted against the sunset. Very strange how much that area has changed in the past 10yrs.

January 4 2012, took the maple leaf to canadia. The yard area is still there, just under the park. It dead ends into a wall off into the dark towards the river. West side park is 100% man made, all you can see under there is a maze of trusses and columns with daylight peaking through here and there. I'm not a fan of robert moses in the least, and i think it's hilarious his namesake highway is out in buffalo on the other side of the state, but you gotta give him props where due, the west side park, as much of a bankrupting boondoggle as it was, is an incredible engineering achievement. I have no idea if multilevels can fit through there or not, but we know gennies and amfleets can!