All Things Empire Builder

jp1822 wrote:And I wonder what happened to the passengers who ended up missing their East Coast connections (via Lake Shore or Capital Limited)?

Maybe that's why yesterday's Lake Shore left 5hours 29 min late at 1:04 AM. Monday's left 5 hours 55 min late. My brother is scheduled to be on Friday's 448, from ALB to BOS. Something tells me he'll opt for the bus instead.

The Lake Shore has been delayed due to late inbound arrivals of train 49 (plus crew rest issues related thereto).

I didn't wander back to the MPLS coach, because I didn't want to know Despite the late arrival (which is really a better arrival time for MPLS) it seemed like a lot of people were getting on. The electrical problem we encountered might have had something to do with that coach. I don't remember it happening before they added it.

And yes, they delayed the LSL for the connecting passengers.

Yesterday's trip on the Zephyr from Chicago-Omaha was right on time. I don't know what happened after it left Denver however.

The next big question is how late the Zephyr will be into Omaha on 12/27 to take me back to Chicago. If it's too late I will probably just bag it, stay here an extra day and take the "ambus" to KC to get on the Chief.

We've got a family adventure to Portland, OR coming up, and I've been toying with the idea of flying one way and taking the Builder the other.

If we decide to take the train, we'd be travelling in a Family Bedroom as there are 5 of us (2 adults, 4yo, 2.5yo, 1mo). But the little voice inside my head is questioning my sanity for proposing a trip with a 2 year old. I'm sure my 4 year old would be no problem, and the baby just sleeps and eats, so no problems there either. My 2 year old though can be a bit of a handful at times and I'm look for advice from others that have taken similarly aged kids on LD trains.

Also, as far as Eastbound and Westbound, it does appear from the schedule that Eastbound would allow greater sighseeing of the Cascades and Rockies, but it taking it Westbound would is logistically preferable to us at this stage. So my question is, if we take the builder Westbound in early March, would we miss all or most of the good scenery?

TIA

The best scenery on the Empire Builder route is (in my opinion) Glacier Park, which is seen during the daytime eastbound, but at night westbound. The second-best scenery (in my opinion) is the approach to Seattle in through the Cascades in the morning. Going to Portland, OR, however, would mean that you'd get the Columbia River instead. Not bad, mind you, just not my personal favorite.

Either way, it should be a good ride (if you think your two-year-old can handle it; bring lots of small games).

Some Tips for dealing with kids
1. Bring Games, Crayons Coloring Books as well as Favorite Snacks
2. Try to get a Sleeper if you can
3. Bring enough Baby Supplies
4. The Senery EB is the Best
5. Have Fun Evey trip is Adventure.

John

How is the usual on-time performance of the westbound Empire Builder into Seattle? If the scheduled arrival time is 10:20 am, can I safely plan on taking a 3:15 ferry to Victoria, BC?
Also, particularly if the train is liable to be late, is there a later, safer ferry connection from the Builder to Victoria than the 3:15 last boat of the Victoria Clipper?

The Empire Builder is rarely so late that you'd miss a connection of nearly 5 hours. Cabs are readily available at King Street Station and it's less than a 10-minute trip to where the Victoria Clipper departs.

While ontime performance of the Empire Builder hasn't been too spectacular over the past six months or so, most of times it has been tardy is because of equipment failure or derailments. But as a tribute to the reliability of this train, it's important to remember that the Empire Builder (on the west end of the run) as the shortest turnaround time of any long distance train. Train 7 is due into Seattle at 1020 AM, and the same equipment turns back for train 8 departing at 445 PM. Since it takes several hours to service the train and make it ready to head back east, the fact that this has been occurring day in and day out for years means it's close to schedule much of the time.

Also, if you're aboard the westbound Empire Builder and you're 4 hours late in North Dakota as an example: the train has about 30 minutes padding between Havre and Shelby and another 30 minutes between Sandpoint and Spokane. The train is scheduled for 8 hours and 5 minutes between Spokane and Seattle, but when its late, it takes about 7 hours and I've been on it several times when this part of the run takes but 6 hours, 45 minutes. And on BNSF (unlike some other western roads which I won't mention by name, but whose initials are Union Pacific), Amtrak trains really can make up time.... (the only exception would be if it's 35 below zero, then making up time isn't going to happen).

I would think you should make it ok Eastbound it is normally close to ontime as well as west. OTP in Jan 68.8% better than the Chief last month.

Just a bit more on how a late Westbound Empire Builder can make up time: Train 7 departing Chicago February 4 was delayed between St. Paul and Fargo when it detoured on its one-time route via Willmar (now good only for 40 MPH) due to a coal train derailment near St. Cloud. This caused the train to be as late as 3 hours and 52 minutes late departing Grand Forks. The train was down to 2 hours 41 minutes late departing Cut Bank, and 1 hour 46 minutes late departing Spokane. The train arrived Seattle at 1132 AM February 6, only 1 hour, 12 minutes late. (And the Portland section of the Empire Builder, train 27, arrived in Portland only 27 minutes late, making up 3 hours and 25 minutes since Grand Forks!)

i remember been surprised to arrive ontime in Seattle , after waking to a train running a couple of hours late that morning . lots of padding in the last few stops .

My family and I rode Charleston WV-Chicago IL-Red Wing MN-Glacier Park MT-Portland OR in July '04. In this case, "family" means me, my wife, 3 kids ages (at the time) 3+, 6+ and 7.5, plus two sets of grandparents. We broke the trip up--1 night in Red Wing MN, 2 nights in Glacier Park--so no more than one night in a row on the train. We flew back home.

Onboard, we had the advantage of granparents willing to spring for deluxe sleepers, so we had the luxury of opening up the doors between bedrooms during daytime travel--very nice. Enough space for all 9 of us, if we wanted to, though more typically it was 6-8 in the combined space. In general, though, our kids are old enough that we try to get one standard sleeper and one deluxe sleeper on our overnight trips--the deluxe because the lower bed is wide enough to sleep a parent and a child fairly comfortably.

I've never ridden in a Family Room. From what I've seen of it, though, it may be a bit on the cramped side for the 5 of you, particularly with a lack of floor space for baby stuff. Two of the beds, of course, are short--fine for small kids, but nothing extra, so you'll have to figure out how to manage the baby.

I'm happy to discuss our trip last summer at length (and let me just say, we had a FANTASTIC time), but as to your basic question--how will a 2 year old do? Well, the Empire Builder carries a fair number of families on vacation, so I wouldn't think you'd get a "cold shoulder" for having kids onboard. It's a nice LONG train, so you have a few extra cars to stretch out in--I'm sure the 2 year old will want to walk the entire length (or as much as you can access) several times every hour or so! As with many (most? all?) western long distance trains, you've got the Sightseer Lounge, of which you can make EXCELLENT use--a couple of times we moved from our bedrooms down to the lounge and just camped out there. As you can see from a floorplan (check the Amtrak site), the seats are arranged in semi-circles and such, so you can create sort of an enclosed area in which to corral the kids. The middle day of the trip will have Park Rangers on board to talk and some show-and-tell stuff for kids, but yours will probably be too young for that. But we carried lots of stuff for the kids to do onboard, and our kids were of the ages (including the 3 year old) that being able to sit and do stuff with them (as opposed to, say, dad being up in the driver's seat of the minivan not wanting to have anything more to do with the kids than getting them to sit down and shut up) turned out to be a LOT of fun.

In general, it'll have to be a gut call on your part. I think it's doable, in that there's lots of space onboard to keep you from getting cramped, but the actual logistics (including the tight space in the bedroom itself) may very well make it not worth it.

A final thought: I might lean away from doing it this summer if it's the first train trip for everyone, particularly if it's the first train trip of ANY kind. My wife and I had both traveled in sleepers previously, plus we did a "warm-up" trip (long weekend, overnight on the train each way) to see how the kids did.

Let me know if you have other questions.

I, too, have traveled with a two-year old -- my trip being from New York to St. Paul. Like Charlotejim points out, be prepared to walk the train -- a desire for which two-year-olds and railfans share in common.

The most challenging thing was the dining car. They do not have booster seats, and depending on where you land in the service pattern, the waite for service, which under normal circumstances is never a problem, can be a little exhausting as you try to occupy the little one.

On our Westbound LSL, we were the second group seated and the last served, because they sat people in a different order that they served them. (In other words, the seated people alternatingly in tables on each side of the aisle starting closest to the kitchen, but they served people starting with the tables on one side of the aisle, going all the way down the car, and then making their way back on the other side of the aisle and ending at our table, which was closest to the kitchen.) Unfortunately, a gentle request for an exception to the service pattern was not honored.

On our Eastbound LSL, we had just the opposite experience. Our sleeping car attendant noticed an abundance of little ones in his car alone, so he arranged a pre-first call family seating in the dining car, where a concerted effort was made to serve those with little kids promptly. It made a huge difference.

In all, I would do it again in a heartbeat. Indeed, our two-year-old really had fun on the train. The train is a special experience for everyone, two-year-olds included. One of my fondest memories was returning from a brief visit to the lounge on the LSL to hear my wife and son singing "you are my sunshine" as he was dozing off with her on the lower bunk. And once asleep, he slept just great.

So despite its special challenge for the parents, I'd encourage you to give it a try, but beware that it will be a little work.

Thanks everyone for the advice, decision time is rapidly approaching and we'l certainly review the advice posted here when weighing our options.

Take it from a guy with a 16mo. toddler.... BUY a portable DVD player and plenty of her favorite movies and tv specials available on DVD. I am on my third player and the device is worth it's weight in gold. And when your through traveling set it up in your car for sanity purposes on everyday trips!!! IM SERIOUS!!!