Alcohol on Amtrak and a UL

The link itself is about whether Amtrak (and other) left Oklahoma over an alcohol dispute Did the railroads leave Oklahoma because it wouldn't allow liquor sales on trains?

I had thought that at some point the Feds had successfully asserted Federal rules over interstate commerce like this, but apparently not.

Are there still "dry" areas on any Amtrak routes?

It's a case-specific issue. Booze is not an interstate commerce-critical issue. In other words, alcohol sales are not critical to the operation of interstate trains. To this day, alcohol sales are regulated by state law on interstate trains. On the other hand, in cases like Arizona v. Southern Pacific, the courts found that in issues critical to interstate commerce, the states could not interfere. Arizona v. Southern Pacific was about freight train length through Arizona. Most freights in Arizona were bridge traffic between California and the Midwest/East, and the federal courts said Arizona couldn't regulate train length because interstate commerce was a federal issue and bridge traffic is, by definition, interstate commerce. By having to stop trains before the border, cut size, run two freights to the far border, and reintegrate to one train, it affected interstate commerce. There was a similar case in Iowa related to triple-trailer trucks if I recall.

I am pretty sure that there are states where Amtrak is not allowed to sell liquor. Years ago Kansas City Southern timetables showed which states they could sell and serve
alcahol.
Noel Weaver

Yep! Was on the Crescent a couple years ago headed North and couldn't buy a "night cap" on a Sunday night until we crossed over into South Carolina from Georgia.

The Metropolitan wrote:Yep! Was on the Crescent a couple years ago headed North and couldn't buy a "night cap" on a Sunday night until we crossed over into South Carolina from Georgia.

Here in Connecticut, we can't buy alcohol at all on Sunday, and after 9:00 PM the other 6 days in stores etc, but you can get it at lounges/bars and restaurants. I wonder what the case is on Amtrak trains that go through Connecticut after 9:00 PM and on Sundays are.

7express wrote:

The Metropolitan wrote:Yep! Was on the Crescent a couple years ago headed North and couldn't buy a "night cap" on a Sunday night until we crossed over into South Carolina from Georgia.

Here in Connecticut, we can't buy alcohol at all on Sunday, and after 9:00 PM the other 6 days in stores etc, but you can get it at lounges/bars and restaurants. I wonder what the case is on Amtrak trains that go through Connecticut after 9:00 PM and on Sundays are.

There have to be different rules for FRA regulated passenger trains, because, in most states (certainly in PA, NJ and NY) any bar serving alcohol must purchase that alcohol in state. When I take a Regional through 5 states, they're still serving beer from the same cases - which makes the most sense from a business perspective. (Someone check the cans for deposit stamps on top next time.)

I suppose railroads and airlines are the only bars that change jurisdiction during operation. What do airlines do, because the flight attendants don't usually know which state's airspace they're occupying. Any lawyers around? I suspect that even though alcohol regulation is specifically delegated to the states, there are special rules for railways and airlines.

7express wrote:Here in Connecticut, we can't buy alcohol at all on Sunday, and after 9:00 PM the other 6 days in stores etc, but you can get it at lounges/bars and restaurants. I wonder what the case is on Amtrak trains that go through Connecticut after 9:00 PM and on Sundays are.

In Texas you can't purchase alcohol until after 12 Noon on Sundays....

i just say bring your own. a cooler of beer with some grinders and peanuts makes any long trip better

a 40 or a few tall boys to ny always works

kitn1mcc wrote:i just say bring your own. a cooler of beer with some grinders and peanuts makes any long trip better

a 40 or a few tall boys to ny always works

From the Amtrak website:

Private stock
You may bring aboard your own private stock of alcoholic beverages subject to the following limitations:

You may consume private stock alcoholic beverages only in Sleeping Car accommodations for which you have a valid ticket.,,,,,

Just a word to the wise before considering Mr. Kit M's suggestion. In view of that there is no Sleeping Car service through Connecticut, I doubt if he in in compliance with this Amtrak rule.

MelroseMatt wrote: I suppose railroads and airlines are the only bars that change jurisdiction during operation. What do airlines do, because the flight attendants don't usually know which state's airspace they're occupying. Any lawyers around? I suspect that even though alcohol regulation is specifically delegated to the states, there are special rules for railways and airlines.

I cant speak for Amtrak, but airlines frequently purchase "international" stock of drinks (also used by cruise boats).

On a flight from Newark to Boston on US Airways I was served a can of coke bottled in South Africa! The can was slightly smaller than an american one. I've also been served sprite (I think it was sprite) on a Boston-Dallas flight, which was bottled in Holland (330ml)

Many times the cans say "for air and marine use only"

Obviously, coke and sprite are not alcoholic, but perhaps the airline, boats and amrtak purchase similar alcohol stock that comes free of restriction? Im speculating, but maybe they follow the rules from the departing "port"?

kitn1mcc wrote:i just say bring your own. a cooler of beer with some grinders and peanuts makes any long trip better

a 40 or a few tall boys to ny always works

You know, even without looking at your location, I figured "has to be Connecticut". Why? Because I grew up calling them grinders and still only find them called that in CT. (a sub sandwich for most of the rest of you.)

A grinder in Connecticut (and a "sub" anywhere else) is a hoagie in the Philadelphia area.

Early in Amtrak's history, Amtrak challenged Oklahoma on regulation of liquor sales on trains. The state attorney general charged that Amtrak was "operating an open saloon in Oklahoma" (selling liquor by the drink was illegal at that time the state; they had "bottle clubs"). I believe Amtrak prevailed by asserting that they need not comply with state laws regarding conditions for sales of alcohol. After all, as already pointed out in this thread, Amtrak stocked the "Texas Chief" in Chicago and Houston, so the alcohol was not purchased in OK.

I don't think, though, that the 1979 disontinuence of the "Texas Chief" had anything whatever to do with rules on alcohol sales.

In theory (and this is mostly theoretical), you're not supposed to buy liquor in one state and transport it to another without paying state taxes. I live in New Jersey, which has privately owned liquor stores. Occasionally Pennsylvania (which has money-losing, state-run stores) posts a state trooper in the parking lot to catch PA residents buying liquor and (illegally) transporting it across state lines. It's really just a bit of silliness on PA's part. Don't the state troopers have something better to do?

They do now. There was a memorable incident (I think in the 1970s) in which 2 PA State Troopers were arrested in NJ doing just that. The NJ State Police called Harrisburg and said "we have two guys here in our territory who claim to be PA State Troopers. If they're yours and you want them back, send somebody to pick them up and give us a receipt for them." There was a lot less of that activity after that. When the PA legislature created the Liquor Control Board in 1933 they meant Control.
Up until 1966 or -67, PA was dry on Sunday until the legislature was prevailed upon by the hospitality industry to permit hotels in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh to serve alcohol on Sundays because it was almost impossible to attract convention business. The Pennsylvania Railroad secured a license at that time to serve on trains throughout the State on Sundays. They didn't have lobbyists for nothing.

Traveling on the SW Chief last year, the cafe car attendant made an announcement that the use of personal alcohol on the train was not permitted in coach, but customers in private rooms could do as they pleased.

i take mncr and sle if anything most of the time anyway. as for the rule oh well.