Acela II (Alstom Avelia Liberty): Design, Production, Delivery, Acceptance

I think it's unfortunate that yet again a discussion about services and new equipment seems to focus so heavily on aesthetics and paint especially.

There is so much more to discuss about these new trainsets than visual appeal or potential deficits thereof.

I think we really haven't fully considered the ramifications of increased ridership and capacity that the upgraded service will offer. The increase in capacity is really going to challenge the airline shuttle services. There will be incremental speed improvements made from time to time as well that are clearly going to have an effect on ridership as well.

Try to imagine for example how many new seats per day are being added out of WAS and how that compares to total available inventory from KDCA to KLGA (likely the "prime target" city pair).

I would be very interested to know how that comparison looks.

Well, style is important in attracting customers and revenues. Maybe it's just me, but I prefer to buy and use things that are good-looking, but I guess that others do as well.

How many Pontiac Azteks do you see in the US and how many Fiat Multiplas do you see in Europe?

Look at the huge increases in Amtrak's market share in the Northeast due to Acela I, and it's certainly not because it's a much faster train; it's a sleeker, more stylish train, too.

It's unfortunate because the ugly power cars could easily have been avoided. Not only are the beaks just ugly, but the walls of the power car aren't even aligned with the walls of the coaches.

gokeefe wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:57 pm I think it's unfortunate that yet again a discussion about services and new equipment seems to focus so heavily on aesthetics and paint especially.
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THIS^^^ thank you Mr. O'Keefe!

SouthernRailway wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:08 pm Well, style is important in attracting customers and revenues. Maybe it's just me, but I prefer to buy and use things that are good-looking, but I guess that others do as well.

How many Pontiac Azteks do you see in the US and how many Fiat Multiplas do you see in Europe?

Look at the huge increases in Amtrak's market share in the Northeast due to Acela I, and it's certainly not because it's a much faster train; it's a sleeker, more stylish train, too.

It's unfortunate because the ugly power cars could easily have been avoided. Not only are the beaks just ugly, but the walls of the power car aren't even aligned with the walls of the coaches.

I'll agree Acela "I" boosted ridership; it was after all 'Murica's first "High-Speed", as it is defined here anyway. It was also a much improved service, faster and more reliable.

Will that carry over to Avelia? "HSR" on the NEC is old hat. As Mr. O'Keefe rightly points out, the new sets are increasing capacity and reliability. On the NEC, I really don't think it's going to make a bit of difference what it looks like. Now, extend it out to Fredericksburg and Richmond? Or to Harrisburg? Yes, but I doubt people are focusing on the fact that the nose is not tapered to their liking, or that the power car doesn't match the coach. WE might care, but the riding public? The shine is off HSR until it hits new markets.

lets judge these sets on how they will perform not how it tickles your whatever.....

Case in point: back in the day, as a boy with his paper route money in his pocket, I would pass up riding a 4400 on the NH (PC) for a ride on an M2 Cosmopolitan. Even in recent years, if I was leaving GCT and saw that same M2 at 40 years old I'd wait for an 8. The latter example was basically because the M2 was worn and old. Today? I would give anything to ride a 4400 again. But on a daily basis, I want equipment that's not worn out like the "A-1's". And I don't care what the replacements look like, at least not mostly. I don't choose to fly on a particular model airplane (unless it's a 737 MAX or some tiny little regional jet), I choose to fly on a route and time that's convenient.

A lot of people in my business circles wouldn't ride a Northeast Regional train between NY and DC; they'd fly.

But they'll pay a significantly higher price and take the Acela.

The on-board space and trip times are similar. So I think that the Acela's style attracts at least some patronage. Maybe not a lot. But at least some.

When all is said and done, we will get use to the new look. Criticism was thrown at the original Acela, and Genesis locomotive, we eventually got used to them.

why on earth wouldn't considerably increasing capacity mean a lot more ridership? Acela tickets are some of the priciest train tickets in the world. There's all kinds of unmet demand at a lower price-point

Late last summer my wife and I used Acela from NYP to DC. Ignoring the horrible Amtrak web site, we found decent prices at somewhat odd times of day. Our biggest concern was getting to NYP from Long Island, but we left ourselves plenty of time. At Penn, we used Redcaps to get on the Acela nice and early with zero hassle (same coming home). The Acela seats were roomier and more comfortable than regional, fewer stops were nice as well. Only complaint was the extremely slim food choice and long waits for it, especially after leaving NYP, and being less than thrilled with what we got. We would definitely do it again. BTW, our final destination was in the Dulles area, and beyond the very poor signage at WUS - coming and going, we happily used the Metro. We would like to see the completion of the Metro (Silver line, I believe) - in our lifetime, but it looks like they've learned how to do things from NY's MTA. In terms of Acela pricing, it is steep, but there are bargains available. And more capacity might help in that.

How many non railfan riders are going to care about the exterior looks Lets worry more about the interior designs and layouts that will be important !

I'm a railfan, and as much as I care about the exterior of a train, I care a lot more about my accommodations aboard the train, including space, seats, wifi, bathrooms and food.

SouthernRailway wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:54 pmThe on-board space and trip times are similar. So I think that the Acela's style attracts at least some patronage.

I was going to make a point about interior spaces based on your previous post but I will make it with this one instead.

Interior spaces are exactly why customers choose Acela over Amfleet equipped Northeast Regional trains in addition to the slightly better speed and generally higher OTP.

The new Avelia trainsets will almost certainly be a major improvement over the Acela cars. The WiFi will be better (no small matter these days), the seats will be sleeker and have integrated side head rests along with power and USB.

And yes this time they really will be offering assigned seat reservations. The entire experience will be light years beyond what Amtrak is offerring right now. At the risk of triggering a food service discussion I could also mention the better cafe car configuration but I think the real focus should be on the passenger experience at their seat.

When brought online these new trainsets will deliver a passenger experience that will be the finest intercity travel experience anywhere in North America and will easily be competitive with HSR offerrings elsewhere in the world.

I'm confident Amtrak will roll out new food and beverage offerrings in FirstClass and the Acela Cafe as part of the entry in service of the new trainsets.

I’m sure that there are seat pitch measurements somewhere online, but I don’t recall much difference between Amfleet business class vs. Acela business class seat space.

And comparing Acela I and Acela II is not relevant, really. Acela II will be competing against planes, not Acela I. And Amtrak could fix up Acela I interiors if it wanted to.

Acela v. Amfleet seats might as well be a leather recliner v. a pine bench. They are worlds apart in terms of comfort. More importantly the window views are better not only at the seat but throughout the entire car. The bathrooms are far better and there are also some seats with fold out tables.

The Avelia trainsets are not only competing against planes but also against perceptions of the previous trainsets. To the ultra premium passengers that these trainsets are built for this will be a serious reason to try Amtrak again of they haven't for some time.

I agree that most riders won't care so much about external appearance. Interior might be another matter, but I'm not sure how much it matters. I prefer traditional, subdued - blue & gray colors, maybe some woodgrain finish. So, I find the first gen Acela to be perfect in that regard. The new one definitely goes for more of a rainbow effect! Orange and purple is definitely not my first thought when I think of first class accommodations. Looks too commuter train-ish to me, but again, I'll have to see it in person.

https://railcolornews.com/2019/08/29/us ... or-amtrak/