Accidents and immunity?

Last night as our train was running down the mainline, I looked up to see an individual standing in the middle of the track spread-eagle. Just as our loco was about to make contact he jumped out of the way. We were not sure if we hit this person or not because he waited until the absolute last possible second.

I'm a recent new hire and have worked in a yard for almost 6 months and this was my 4th trip on the line of road and my first near accident. My question is to some of the more experienced railroaders on this forum, do you ever get immune to these situations and accidents in general? I was shaken up for nearly an hour, nothing major but felt queasy and my blood pressure went through the roof for a little while.

I understand that as a rr'er you have no control over these things. Will it get easier? Can it get easier?

Thanks in advance.

Lmcgolf wrote: My question is to some of the more experienced railroaders on this forum, do you ever get immune to these situations and accidents in general?

Yes, and No. When you run over a person, or have a train/auto collision, you can still get sued, but the RR will provide you a lawyer. If you did everything that you possibly could from your end, you will walk away clean.
But, if you didn't whistle, ring the bell; your headlights were on dim... etc. you could be liable.
If you were speeding at the time of the impact, the RR will back off and you will be on your own in the hands of the jury.

When people/kids play chicken, I ALWAYS place the train in emergency, call out an emergency over the radio, notify the dispatcher, and if required by rules have conductor walk the train.

If the guy gets away... good for him. But if I run him over, and his family decides to sue the railroad and the crew, I did everything that I possibly could to save their sons life.

Lmcgolf wrote: I was shaken up for nearly an hour, nothing major but felt queasy and my blood pressure went through the roof for a little while.

That's normal!

Lmcgolf wrote: I understand that as a rr'er you have no control over these things. Will it get easier? Can it get easier?

Thanks in advance.

That all depends on you. This part of railroading is the dark side of our job, and you have to think of it as something that you don’t have the control of. Don't ever blame your self, or feel guilty... I know people who quit the RR because they couldn't handle these things.
It's not an easy thing to walk back there at night and trip over the persons head.
Next time, pull the handle!
Good luck

Your emotional reaction is very normal. We all have our own ways of dealing with an instantaneous horrible situation. But be mindful of the fact that this is very hard on your psyche. A critical incident really does burn an impression in our minds.

Most railroads have a peer support counseling system in place to help employees who have witnessed fatalities or near misses. I would highly encourage you to contact a peer support counselor or a trusted friend family member to discuss your feelings.

I have been an Engineer for 28 years now. I have had 14 collision fatalities ( cars, trucks, pedestrians, and suicides. ) . Prior to railroading I was an ambulance paramedic in San Francisco. I also serve my BLE division as a peer councilor. I am just saying that I have been around the block feel free to contact me if you wish.

Take good care of yourself.

Lmcgolf wrote:Last night as our train was running down the mainline, I looked up to see an individual standing in the middle of the track spread-eagle. Just as our loco was about to make contact he jumped out of the way.

You can always play with them also----OPEN WATER BOTTLES OUT THE WINDOW----you have a good feeling from seeing somebody close to the tracks in the first few secounds what their intentions are-----sucider's are usually alone----so if you get a few guys clowning around on the track and they want to play games--then lets play some games---a little water out the window as you go by them----what are they gonna do? Call the police and say "yea, I was playing chicken with the train and I got a little wet"


As far as crossing accidents----do your job everyday-make sure the engineer is doing his job correctly (whistle-no speeding etc.) and when something does happen-you will have no doubts.

CSX and JZ are correct about speeding. Watch your Hogger and yourself when you become a hogger and keep it at or below the max speed. If an incident does occur, the tapes will be pulled and reviewed by all parties if it goes to court.

During our Hogger class at the Salt Lake City training center we had a rep from the UP legal dept talk to us about just this issue. One item that occurs when a hogger/conductor are hauled into court is the attorney(s) for the family of the victim will ask if at any time your were traveling over the max speed for that territory. The tapes will show this. If yes, then one of their arguments will be had you not sped the victim would have had at least a few more seconds to notice the train and not get hit, run over, etc.

As one of our instructors said, their fate is already sealed when you see a car/truck/person on the tracks. All you can do is ensure that proper train handling occurs to stop the train depending on the type of train consistent with good train handling to ensure the train comes to a safe stop.

I'm not sure I would "play" back by opening the windows and squirting water at them. Case in point is a crewmember who was seriously hurt in DFW (Dallas) on a UP train when some kids hit him the face with a brick as they passed by playing chicken:

http://cbs11tv.com/local/local_story_219182500.html

With these "blackboxes" is there not the possibility of error? A case of mis-information.

Ive never heard of any dude.

This scenario was told to me by the engineer involved: Heading north on a 128 car empty with one of the brand new 4400ac's loco-cam gps the works. He was going 40 mph and accelerating to track speed(45 mph)when suddenly a man darted across the main from the mall parking lot and was only about 6-8 car lengths away so he big holed the train and followed procedure for such an event. After giviing the ds the details he charged up the train and finished his trip. On his next trip the road foreman called him in to his office and asked him about what happened, after telling the him about the event the road forman asked the engineer if he remembered what the trespasser was wearing, the engineer thought this was an odd question but told him "Ya he was wearing kaki brown pants and a blue jacket, why?". The road foreman then pulled out a large photograph of his train at the location where he went into emergency and then pointed to a person near the right of way and asked is this the guy who ran in front of your train. Long story short if you're on a locomotive with gps not only do they have auto uploads on the tapes but in emergency applications they'll take a sattelite snapshot of the event.

Lmcgolf wrote:Last night as our train was running down the mainline, I looked up to see an individual standing in the middle of the track spread-eagle. Just as our loco was about to make contact he jumped out of the way. We were not sure if we hit this person or not because he waited until the absolute last possible second.

We've had 2 suicides by trains in the past 3 years so I won't think twice about spiking my train and giving the best discripton of the trespasser to the ds. That way if I hit someone I can go to court knowing that I did all I could. Waiting to the last second could get you into a world of trouble, the lawyers leve no stone unturned when they're dealing with a company that has very deep pockets. They would figure out that a train crew would have seen the so called victim xx amount of time before the crew actually went into emergency and would then have figures determining if the train would have stopped short of the point of impact or how much more time the victim would have to escape had the crew made an emergency application at first sight. The lawyers and the jury will only see that you hesitated and will hold you accountable.

And don't forget about the microphone that supposedly only picks up the outside noises only. I've been with some guys who refuse to talk because they think big brother is listening inside the cab as well. I could care less myself.

Regarding the "Railcams" on locomotives...

I've heard they're only ON when the Reverser is out of center...anyone know for sure?

I have been lucky...only one fatality incident (two pedestrians killed, in a drunkel lover's spat) and one non-fatal, non-injury collision at grade.

I was an engineer for three months when I ran down those pedestrians. I had an overloaded train, pulling up a steep grade, then down an eight-mile downgrade. I was running about five mph "hot" and with a non-responsive telemetry (the EOT had faded out, it did on long trains in that area; and on the other side of town we had another steep climb. We, the old-head conductor and I, wanted a running start)

We came around a bend, and there they were. The woman apparently committed suicide. Her man got killed trying to pull her off. Witnesses had seen them drinking and fighting in a nearby bar a few minutes earlier.

It looked like the man would succeed...he was pulling her off the tracks on the left side. I swung the brake handle over to Emergency (I thought) and joined the conductor on the left side to see if they got clear.

A few seconds later, I saw I hadn't got the brake over to Emergency, only to Handle Off. Uh-oh...

But nothing came of it. The police didn't want to see tapes. The road foreman didn't pull them. Nobody wanted to see my Driver's License and nobody was talking of charges.

The Company gave us a relief crew there at the scene. Neither of us was distraught, although I was rattled. It was a holiday, and the conductor welcomed the chance to get home early. I thought about it...I wasn't broken up over people I didn't know who got killed from their foolishness...but, I was off the mark. If something happened LATER because I was distracted, it WOULD be my fault, for not taking the chance to get off.

That was a hell of an initiation. Thankfully, I have not killed or injured anyone since that time.

conrail_engineer wrote:
That was a hell of an initiation. Thankfully, I have not killed or injured anyone since that time.

I have the mind set that they killed themselves and put me and my conductor through their hell-----I DID NOT GO TO WORK PLANNING ON INJURING OR KILLING SOMEBODY they came to me-because they are chicken shits and need help taking care of all their problems.

SooLineRob,

The cams should be on at all times. We had a engineer in Las Vegas get a level as a result of the camera providing a recording of his tampering with the device when he was doing his inspections. Although he thought the same thing, the device noted when and where he tampered with the device. Not only do the cameras verify track conditions ahead of your train, they also serve as a means to ensure that crews are rolling by trains when they are in the hole as well. We've had guys talked to about not being on the ground. Well how did you know I was not on the ground? The manager says the camera told us.

I'm waiting for a cam and microphone to be placed inside the cab before long as they do the airlines to record events leading up to an incident. Are the crews communicating with each other, calling signals, job briefings, etc.

slchub wrote:SooLineRob,

The cams should be on at all times. We had a engineer in Las Vegas get a level as a result of the camera providing a recording of his tampering with the device when he was doing his inspections. Although he thought the same thing, the device noted when and where he tampered with the device. Not only do the cameras verify track conditions ahead of your train, they also serve as a means to ensure that crews are rolling by trains when they are in the hole as well. We've had guys talked to about not being on the ground. Well how did you know I was not on the ground? The manager says the camera told us.

I'm waiting for a cam and microphone to be placed inside the cab before long as they do the airlines to record events leading up to an incident. Are the crews communicating with each other, calling signals, job briefings, etc.

Not doing roll bys? I was trying to figure out how they could see someone not doing roll bys from the ground and my best guess would be thet they're looking to see if the cab door opens. Everyone will just have to say that they went out the back door because the footing was better back there.