Abandoned Trolley Lines

Oh greater and wiser railfans, I bring two questions before you today. Basically, I was driving down Germantown Avenue this afternoon and "discovered" that tracks are actually still in place on Lehigh Ave (I'm pretty sure that was where I saw them, and no they weren't on Girard ), at least where they cross Germantown. What was the line that used them, where did it go, are they still usable, and could the line be reactivated? (that's all question 1). Second, there is trolley wire strung up on Wyoming Avenue where it meets Roosevelt Boulevard (and even crosses the Blvd at that intersection), but I can't see that intersection being serviced by a trolley on the 1944 PTC map -- why is it there?

Are you sure you saw tracks on Lehigh Ave? There hasn't been a trolley on Lehigh since at least the 1950's ( Route 54 was the route that served Lehigh, but it was a bus, at least as far back as the '50's.-- I used to ride that bus from the BSS when I was too lazy to walk to Connie Mack Stadium at 21st Street) Route 60 ran on Allegheny Ave., just north of Lehigh, and the streetcar on that route lasted through the 1960's.

The wires you saw on Wyoming were probably double wires for the Route 75 trackless trolley. This route DOES cross Roosevelt Blvd ( I believe at Oxford Circle) I haven't been in that area in years, so things may have changed. From what I understand, the only trackage in that area which could be reactivated would be Route 23 trackage on Germantown Ave. How long that will last is a good guess.

Unfortunately I'm not certain it was Lehigh -- I noted the street when I was there and filed it away as something to ask about, but then, as the hours passed, I lost certainty of what street it was. If it wasn't Lehigh, it was near Lehigh. Now I feel the need to go back and find out if I am crazy or not!

As for the Route 75, thanks for the info, but I'm not sure that it's quite what I saw. The 75 is mostly south and east of the Blvd, and if it crosses in the Oxford Circle area, then that's too far northeast. This wire runs along Wyoming north of the Blvd to the intersection of Wyoming, 7th & the Blvd, where it crosses the highway and I lose it (but it might well continue on Wyoming on that side of Roosevelt).

The 23 trolley use to have a turnback around Lehigh Ave. that just went around the block to turn a trolley in the opposite direction. This is what you may of seen. I lived in that area in the '50's and remember the trolleys making turns in that area rather than going further north.

I don't see trolley tracks on Lehigh in these photos from October 2002:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/535 ... 5069UqZXMt

http://community.webshots.com/photo/535 ... 5564qfTKFU

I happened to have another opportunity to make the run down Germantown Ave today, and sure enough there are no tracks on Lehigh (thanks for the pics, Chuchubob, I wasn't convinved that I was wrong until I saw them!). What I saw that for some reason stuck in my head as Lehigh was the remains of the 56 on Erie, which we all know should still be usable. Actually, I thought it was kind of neat to also see that the 20 still has tracks where Old York Rd & Germantown meet, with a small connector track (for a route 20 turnaround?) on Rising Sun completing the triangle of the 3 roads.

BTW, those wires at Wyoming & the Blvd are definetly the 75. The map I was looking at was too old, the route of the 75 must have changed at some point, because its most recent route coincides perfectly with the wires I saw. Thanks all for making me check that!!

Ok, so now I'm brainstorming again: obviously the 23 and the 56 connect, and SEPTA doesn't want to run either. In another thread I suggested running a portion of the 23 (Chestnut Hill - Erie Ave for the BSS transfer) instead of the whole line... but what do youse think about running the 23 from Chestnut Hill down to Erie and then following the 56 tracks up into Northeast Philly to make a sort of cross-town trolley? There really is no good non-driving route to get from Northwest to Northeast Philly that doesn't involve spending a small fortune on regional rail tickets (there are buses, but on this forum I'm sure we can all agree that a bus route can never be "good", only "fair"). Is this a feasible option?

Umblehoon wrote: Actually, I thought it was kind of neat to also see that the 20 still has tracks where Old York Rd & Germantown meet, with a small connector track (for a route 20 turnaround?) on Rising Sun completing the triangle of the 3 roads.

The 1991 Sunday River Video "Philadelphia Trollleys" has a segment on the Route 20, which among several interesting shots including shots at 12th & Snyder showing both the 20 and the double ended cars on Route 79, shows an 8000 series Route 20 car rounding the curve in front of the late JFK Stadium ( then Municipal Stadium) -----The stadium is the ONLY thing there!----- This is especially interesting in light of the implosion this week of Veteran's Stadium.

Umblehoon wrote: Actually, I thought it was kind of neat to also see that the 20 still has tracks where Old York Rd & Germantown meet, with a small connector track (for a route 20 turnaround?) on Rising Sun completing the triangle of the 3 roads.

A charter sponsored by Rockhill Trolley Museum two years ago using PCC's 2785 and 2728 made good use of the triangle at Germantown, Rising Sun, and Old York.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/274 ... 5890Bsgfvz

This thread is quite dormant, but it seemed as good a place for my question as any:

Was there ever a trolley that ran on 18th Street? On my way to work yesterday, I crossed 18th at Arch and I saw, at the bottom of a pothole, what looked to be a trolley rail. Is that right, or was I just sleep-deprived?

SilentCal wrote:This thread is quite dormant, but it seemed as good a place for my question as any:

Was there ever a trolley that ran on 18th Street? On my way to work yesterday, I crossed 18th at Arch and I saw, at the bottom of a pothole, what looked to be a trolley rail. Is that right, or was I just sleep-deprived?

It would seem to be the case. At least in 1954.
http://www.phillytrolley.org/trackmap/p ... k_map.html

Definitely trolley tracks, the only numbered street that crosses arch that didn't have tracks was 21st.

Maybe you were sleep deprived but you still have sharp eyes. The track you saw was part of the RT 32 line which was bustituted by National City Lines (GM) in 1957.
If anyone is in the mood, roadwork is being done on 12th and Ellsworth so it looks as if two whole blocks of the Rt. 64 trolley is still running again.
Also, the South Street bridge is showing its tracks again also.

EugeneV.Debs wrote:If anyone is in the mood, roadwork is being done on 12th and Ellsworth so it looks as if two whole blocks of the Rt. 64 trolley is still running again.
Also, the South Street bridge is showing its tracks again also.

This is intriguing. How viable would it be to remove the asphalt off the top of old trolley lines and putting them back in service? Or would they have to be completely rebuilt? I know trolley wire would have to be put back up.

The trolley Route which ran on 18th Street WAS the Route 32. It ran on South 17th & 18th Streets, then joined Route 17 ( which ran on South 19th & 20th Streets) on Market where it ran to a loop just off Front and Market. These two Routes were the last streetcar routes to operate on the surface of Market Street.

SCB2525 wrote:

EugeneV.Debs wrote:If anyone is in the mood, roadwork is being done on 12th and Ellsworth so it looks as if two whole blocks of the Rt. 64 trolley is still running again.
Also, the South Street bridge is showing its tracks again also.

This is intriguing. How viable would it be to remove the asphalt off the top of old trolley lines and putting them back in service? Or would they have to be completely rebuilt? I know trolley wire would have to be put back up.

Unfortunately, Septa and the city are more intent on destroying what little bit IS left of the trolley infrastructure. Witness the paving over of the Rt 56 tracks and removal of the ploes and wires along Torresdale Avenue last year.