A Tale of Two Railroads

Suppose the short distance customers leave the sleeper untidy or littered? Extra work for the attendant and risking the compartment is not fit for the person down the line?

Amtrak has already advertised intra-Florida 1st Class travel in their timetables. They seem to think that the extra income pays for the cleanup costs.
Intermediate Sleeper charges seem to be more per mile than for the full run of the train. That's how to pay for cleaning and restocking the room enroute so that it can be resold down the line.

george matthews wrote:

ThirdRail7 wrote:
This is an old story, though with a twist. People know that is cheaper to reserve trains to off corridor points and get off early. It is quite routine. I will say, I don't think many people reserve sleepers though!

Nice touch!

There is a remedy for Amtrak for people who get off earlier.

Some years ago Eurotunnel had specially low fares for day returns. But some people went through without coming back the same day. Their credit or debit cards were tapped for the single (higher) fare.

Yes, that's easy to do when the ticket isn't lifted a second time. It's a bit harder when you have no way (presently) of knowing when a passenger got off a train early.

ThirdRail7 wrote:This idea mimics the thoughts observed in this thread:

Rooms On Regional and Short Distance Trains?
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... hilit=9800

As indicated, the 9800 was in REGULAR, advertised, rotation on Metroliners. Occasionally, it even subbed for club class on regionals. The 9800 was supposed to be the first of many. There were constant customer service polls. Passengers were given random upgrades when this car was in their train. There was plenty of feedback and the bottom line is people didn't really like it. The first class passengers didn't think a a lot of it, the regular passengers refused to pay for it and as a control car, it didn't play well with the DC meatballs (meaning it damn sure won't get along with an HHP-8.) To swap it out for a coach makes zero sense since you're trading 70 seats for 33 max that probably won't sell out. It would be hard to justify the additional costs of hauling it.

I could reasonably state that such a service would further draw the ire of an annoyed Congress who already wonder why they're subsidizing passenger meals, sleepers and first class service.

This is why the 9800 is an island in the stream.

Huh - I must have missed that thread. Thanks for pointing it out to me, and I'll take you at your word (and proofs) about the concept being a poor one in that form. And with the AmPad conversions long since reconverted to full coach, there isn't a car in Amtrak's fleet with only one or two rooms in an otherwise open configuration.

The amfleet 2 i rode in on maple leaf had huge leg room. I'm well over 6 feet tall and i found it to be very comfortable. I don't think i'd like being stuck on a train with cell phone & laptop using folks who for whatever reason can't "unplug". I've never rode on a viewliner or superliner, but i have rode on the acela. The acela seems kind of cramped to me when you add big luggage & long use of the tables.

Nice thread; I'll have to keep this strategy in mind when I visit the Northeast!

In response to some of the "getting off here instead" comments, airlines employ a software solution to detect either early departures or "false" round-trip bookings. I don't think Amtrak's tech can keep up with that level, and that's not necessarily their fault. It's much easier when you do passenger counts and have controlled boarding gates.

And airfares are frankly kooky. My sister came down to visit me, flying from Akron-Canton to Savannah via ATL (before Airtran pulled out of SAV). The ticket to SAV was cheaper than a ticket to ATL (we were considering meeting there and driving the remainder due to our schedules). I guarantee, had she not boarded the connecting flight, she would have been charged. Then there are the security concerns. Years ago in 1991, I skipped a leg of a trip from Dothan to LGA via ATL, choosing to drive to ATL for a night's barhopping (it was New Year's Eve) and boarding in ATL. I'd never get away with that today (there'd be fees galore not to mention security issues). Incidentally, it was the last day of Eastern Airlines operations.

Jeff Smith wrote:Nice thread; I'll have to keep this strategy in mind when I visit the Northeast!

In response to some of the "getting off here instead" comments, airlines employ a software solution to detect either early departures or "false" round-trip bookings. I don't think Amtrak's tech can keep up with that level, and that's not necessarily their fault. It's much easier when you do passenger counts and have controlled boarding gates.

And airfares are frankly kooky. My sister came down to visit me, flying from Akron-Canton to Savannah via ATL (before Airtran pulled out of SAV). The ticket to SAV was cheaper than a ticket to ATL (we were considering meeting there and driving the remainder due to our schedules). I guarantee, had she not boarded the connecting flight, she would have been charged. Then there are the security concerns. Years ago in 1991, I skipped a leg of a trip from Dothan to LGA via ATL, choosing to drive to ATL for a night's barhopping (it was New Year's Eve) and boarding in ATL. I'd never get away with that today (there'd be fees galore not to mention security issues). Incidentally, it was the last day of Eastern Airlines operations.

According to the airline boards I read, your sister would have probably been perfectly safe getting off the flight in ATL and not being charged an additional fare. Key word is "probably". If she had a return flight scheduled, though, that very likely would have been canceled.

If she had paid with something other than a credit card, the likelihood of her being charged would have dropped even greater.

Also at risk are your frequent flier miles -- again, in theory they can shut down your account if you do this.

In actuality, it's very hard to find tales of anyone getting charged for this type of activity or having their FF miles taken away, although the cancelation of the return flight is a very likely outcome.

Thanks for that clarification; I remember having read that in a travel column somewhere.

Yep, I've asked about that, and been told that to leave the flight at a midway point would void my further reservation. I suppose you could consider making two separate reservations, but the TSA would probably be contacted as well.

The E-Ticketing thread has more about this, with a few posters speculating that Amtrak will begin cracking down on this sort of behavior (at least, the behavior of boarding at a stop after one's posted origin.) At least though, I doubt that they'll be able to easily check on people who've left at a stop before their scheduled stop.

I really don't think it's a big deal. For instance, when I recently flew into EWR, I found myself wishing I had bought an EWR ticket instead of NWK. On the back end of the trip, if I had detrained in New Rochelle instead of Stamford, what would the big deal have been? So someone tricks the railroad into buying a ticket that costs a few bucks more and gets off earlier? No harm, no foul.

Jeff hits on an interesting point - you can legitimately bail out earlier.

Especially when approaching a metropolitan area, I plan my bail out based on traffic and destination. If a meeting or dinner is canceled or moved, chances are likely that I'll change debarkation points. Also, train lateness and rush hour has a lot to do with where I get off. It's not all a scam.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:While I must note and with thanks that Mr. Third Rail refers to a topic I originated last year, the scope of Mr. Speedbird's parable is more related to making use, and at a cost considerably less than Acela Coach (whoops, Business Class), of existing capacity for NEC trips, a "premium class' service.

On one side, it would appear that Amtrak is leaving potential revenue on the table that could be generated without any additional cost if it were to offer unsold Rooms for local NEC travel. The Arrow (or whatever the system is known as today) could certainly identify Rooms that have been sold "downline" then sell those for local travel as well. Ergo, more revenue, no additional costs.

But a downside is that Operations are likely quite happy with the existing arrangement having all stops on the Meteor, Star, and Crescent conditional stops on the Corridor - especially Northbound where the condition is Discharge only. With the leisurely schedule of some 3hr 50min and only five stops as well as the authority to leave Wash early if all station work is complete, this gives the Train Dispatchers great flexibility on how and where to "slot" these trains. While Southbound, such a proposal could prove feasible, Northbound would surely cause disruptions from existing train handling practices.

Why not make the northbound a "catch it if you can" and open up southbound trips on a sleeper to the "Washington area" day of, or 12 hours prior. I say that because I once had a roomette NYP to Alexandria and then had to switch roomettes in Alexandria for a departing passenger. And I was heading all the way from NYP to New Orleans. So indeed, I think this practice of "day room sleeper" happens more often than not, especially on the Crescent. Northbound, the long distane trains should leave Washington DC as soon as possible, but a "catch you if it can" I thnk is still doable if someone is trying to book travel at the ticket window at Washington DC!

jp1822 wrote:[
Why not make the northbound a "catch it if you can" and open up southbound trips on a sleeper to the "Washington area" day of, or 12 hours prior. I say that because I once had a roomette NYP to Alexandria and then had to switch roomettes in Alexandria for a departing passenger. And I was heading all the way from NYP to New Orleans. So indeed, I think this practice of "day room sleeper" happens more often than not, especially on the Crescent. Northbound, the long distane trains should leave Washington DC as soon as possible, but a "catch you if it can" I thnk is still doable if someone is trying to book travel at the ticket window at Washington DC!

I'm going back and forth with your idea, JP.

I love the thought of using northbound "discharge only" trains as a source of revenue. As you are so fond of mentioning it is POOR FLEET UTILIZATION! It is WASTED CAPACITY! I certainly understand why this is done, but as you stated:

Passenger: I just missed 188 at 710pm. When is the next train to NY?
Agent: Train 198 leaves at 8:45pm. I'll change your ticket. Wait! 90 is 30 minutes early out of ALX. It should leave DC in 30 minutes.
Passenger: I'll take it!

How can you beat that? That's win-win in my mind. The train is going to NY whether it has 65 people or 650 people. It can relieve crowding conditions on the regional trains. Plus, they open space on 80 and 90 on the holidays (though they are held for scheduled time.) Why not give people the option if the train is "in range?"

The part I don't like? The sleepers should be sold through. You've complained the viewliners are underutilized and more should be released to accommodate long distance travelers. Why would you want to open them up for corridor traffic, particularly if they are in demand as people claim? If someone wants the sleeper, they can book it to AlX at any rate.

Maybe I'm off point here, but to me, the sleepers should only be opened up for first class NEC travel at last minute - 90 minutes or less before departure from the Virginia stations.

Tadman wrote:Maybe I'm off point here, but to me, the sleepers should only be opened up for first class NEC travel at last minute - 90 minutes or less before departure from the Virginia stations.

That's exactly my point for the southbound departure. IF someone is booking a sleeper from NYC to New Orleans, in all liklihood, they have their plans made 90 minutes in advance or 5 hours in advance. I was just using the 12 hours in advance as an example. Shorter the window the better for southbound, but not too restrictive either. And your point about northbounds coming through Washington DC is dead on in what I've stated.

For what it is worth, the Cardinal is largely riding empty in between Washington and NYC (northbound). If Amtrak has the chance, why not sell tickets if it is convenient for some at the Washington DC ticket counter! And yes, I've been on the Cardinal northbound from Washington to NYC all too often to see poor load counts on this train as it leaves Washington DC.