A Brilliant Way To Save Money For Septa......

I know your thinking how the hell could that happen, well I'm gonna tell ya. You can raise a lot of the money through fines, that's right fines... :D

I know your probably like this fool has lost his mind but hear me out.

If SEPTA were to enforce certain policies, this could happen..

1-Post signs saying no smoking or Littering on train plaforms.....

2-Post signs that say no smoking or eating on subway, buses & light rail
(I'm excluding Regional Rail because of the long distance & people don't leave heavy messes like they do on the shorter run equipment)

3-Have SEPTA police actually enforce these new procedures drastically.



i know, i know u hardly even see SEPTA police, but when u do they tune out the people who liter or even smoke down in the darn subway.. It bothers me to no end when people are standing next to a trash can, yet they throw their trash onto the tracks.

If the police slapped people with tickets, i think people would get the hint.

Plus i hate if i am standing on a platform & was there 1rst & somebody comes & stands right next to me & lights up a cigarettes...

Myke Romeo Angel wrote:i know, i know u hardly even see SEPTA police

SEPTA has police? Really?

Plus i hate if i am standing on a platform & was there 1rst & somebody comes & stands right next to me & lights up a cigarettes...

Do what I used to do, carry around a spray bottle with water and extinguish their cigarettes when they light up. Sure it's annoying to them, but cigarettes are annoying to you, why should their convenience trump your comfort? This method also works [not surprisingly] for training dogs

-asg

TRUST me. You do not want to spray someone in the subway tunnel with water. ESPECIALLY the people that I have seen smoking.

Let's just say that you will go the way of the R8 Newtown.

How about sarin then?

Anyway, back on topic. I think there are signs like this already posted most places, it's just the enforcement. If the city would pass an ordinance against this, then city police and not just SEPTA police could enforce it. Granted, then the fines would be going to the city and not SEPTA, but health first, finances second.

I don't think that this policy would really bring in that much revenue, especially after a while, but keeping stations and vehicles clean and healthy is a good effect of it.

-asg

amusing erudition wrote:How about sarin then?

Anyway, back on topic. I think there are signs like this already posted most places, it's just the enforcement. If the city would pass an ordinance against this, then city police and not just SEPTA police could enforce it. Granted, then the fines would be going to the city and not SEPTA, but health first, finances second.

I don't think that this policy would really bring in that much revenue, especially after a while, but keeping stations and vehicles clean and healthy is a good effect of it.

-asg

true....

i did notice on the (no longer new) Market Frankford trains they do not have any signs posted saying no smoking or eating. I was apallaed one night when these guys were smoking on the damn train, it had the whole damn train smoking. I looked around 4 a sign, but there was none to be found, so i didn't say anything, i just kept on shooting them nasty looks.

Something really does need 2 be done about people litering all over the place.. The city of Philadelphia period needs more trash cans on the streets however...


There has got to be a way for Septa to make more money without riders having to suffer from fare increases while having to endure a reduction in service..

Myke Romeo Angel wrote:
Something really does need 2 be done about people litering all over the place.. The city of Philadelphia period needs more trash cans on the streets however...

I don't know what it is about Philly residents and the amount of litter I've seen. I think it's that the SEPTA has not been cleaning the stations regularly and therefore people think it's OK to litter. On other transit systems, the stations don't look nearly has dirty. Another aspect is community. If someone stands idly by while someone else litters, it's like you're saying it's OK to do that.

As for the police, I'd like to see them taking care of the muggings and robberies (and attempted ones) first, before issuing fines. I know a lot of people who said that they wouldn't take the subway and el because they just didn't feel safe, especially at night or on weekends. I know it's a problem that all public transit agencies face, but it's something that needs to be addressed.

As for funding, I think a per-passenger subsidy is the best way to go. It gives an incentive to attract more riders and therefore shift users away from autos.

Myke Romeo Angel wrote:

There has got to be a way for Septa to make more money without riders having to suffer from fare increases while having to endure a reduction in service..

This problem goes back to the PRT-PTC days. It seems to have been a "Philadelphia" problem. The only exception to all of this, during the days of private operation, was the Red Arrow Lines which, while it did raise fares from time to time, always provided an excellent level of service.

I see SEPTA police all the time at Center City stations. Some are even comfortable enough to light up in the Market East Concourse, but with that aside, it's rare that I don't see them at major stations. I don't really expect them to be viligant in patrol of Millbourne station or other lightly used stops.

There is a reasonable level of enforcement of the rules as I have seen riders get written up for enjoying a ciggarette on the BSS platform at City Hall. One gentleman showed his intent to pay the ticket with his discarding it over the platform as the train arrived. I have never witnessed a SEPTA police officer ignore a rider smoking or littering on SEPTA property. Like every other police department, they can't be everywhere, and that's the way it should be.

People smoking in enclosed, underground stations is unacceptable, but if you're outside I have no problem with being able to smoke. If it bugs you, walk away. It's a city, people are rude.

The city of Philadelphia has trash cans at nearly every intersection in Center City. I rarely have trouble finding a place to discard trash when walking. As far as civic pride, you obviously won't find much of it on our major streets in Center City as people come and go, however the residential neighborhoods of Center City are extremely clean. You'd be hard pressed to find people littering in Rittenhouse Square.

This plan will do nothing to save the budget. More police officers would have to be hired to enforce these rules, probably breaking SEPTA even in the end. Millions can't be brought in by cutting more tickets.

Hey here's a concept...how about a thread on how SEPTA can MAKE MONEY. I don't mean turn a 'profit', but they need to start thinking how to get money into the farebox and not how to slash costs to stay afloat.

Here's a great example.....4th of July fireworks, art musem. Tons of people down there. What does SEPTA do? They shut down the Route 43. What did people do after the fireworks? They walked to Broad Street or took the buses provided by Phila Trolley Coach works or whatever they are. There were only a few of them, but they were packed.

Granted SEPTA turned off the 43 because the roads were closed, they could have gotten buses in there like the Trolley Wannabe company did, and those buses would have filled. Where were these guys brains? Create a modified special schedule, stage the buses and give people a choice! Then have extra express trains staged at Spring Garden Station to get the people out in a hurry, because those subway cars were stuffed tighter than your Uncle Ernie's suitcase. There was no thought or planning into how to move people on a special event like this, and its very seldom they do extra planning where it is needed. Last big event I remember where there was a coordinated attempt was New Years Eve 2000.

To cap off my night, I took the BSL to Girard where I planned on taking the Rt 15 bustituted trolley home. I knew the bus would be late because of all the traffic overflow down near the 34th Street area. Lots of people park there because you get a good view. So needless to say, I decided to start walking because Broad & Girard isn't exactly a safe place for a white person at 11:30pm. Would you believe it wasn't till I got to Girard & Columbia before a bus showed up!!! That's 15 blocks! Again, no attempt to keep service running on routes where congestion could be anticipated. This wasn't the first time we had fireworks in town. Although I did happen to notice some extra activity, or I should say much longer trains on the Regional Rail bridge as I walked by it. Saw a 4 car train which is very out of place for SEPTA at that hour, and people were on it so it wasn't a equipment move.

Botom line is, even if they don't 'make money' running extra service, it really needs to be there. Its better for us, the region, the environment and so on.

Jfrey40535, well Broad & Girad surely isn't safe for anyone unless your out there doing things you shouldn't be doing, i'm African American & even i don't go down there unless i have to (which is never).......

Now i agree 4th of July with SEPTA was horrible. I truly felt sorry for the people catching the R3. I know people had 2 stand because @ Suburban Station alone that train was jammed packed & it only looked to be about 3 cars with all of them filled up. i get the feeling SEPTA did that on purpose with the limited service, they had to. I know the PATCO line steps up their service for the 4th of July with trains running which seems like every two minutes.

Now back to this littering thing, it really all comes down to the neighborhood & social class you live in. If you notice 2nd Street Station and 5th Street station tend to remain flawless. The community has a lot to do with it as well.

I live in the ghetto @ 52nd & Market and the cops don't care. The station smells like urine and is flooded with cigarette butts everywhere. The damn police are there from time to time, but i have watched people smoking things other than cigarettes bodly walk pass these cops while they held their conversations simply turning a blind eye, It's just truly sad. Also there is not ENOUGH trash cans in some areas of Philadelphia. Take 4th of July there should have been more trash cans out for such a big event as the 4th because everyone like me does not believe in liter. When i personally went to use the trash can it was so overflooded that you could not put anything in there.

But back to SEPTA.....

Another way is like NJT, SEPTA should take over the Harrisburg corridor for Amtrak. They can use the Bombairder coaches to move from New York to Harrisburg to pull in some extra revenue, once Amtrak upgrades the tracks. (they need concrete ties if you ask me, it looks better)

Also SEPTA's public relations department sucks. They need to reach out & do more to the community. They could have something like a annual SEPTA fair which could be open to the public (Use that damn convention Center that only seems to be used 4 the flower show). It's amazing what a few things from the dollar store can do for a party. Even if they charged $5 a person, with everyone who attended the fair they could make some money.

Also that transit musuem store could be a lot better. No offense to the people who work there, but they don't know jack shyt about trains. :rolling my eyes: It's a good thing i don't steal because they are either on the phone so much or talking to each other they don't pay customers any attention.

Another thing they could offer is free give-a-ways such as people who purchase monthly & zone transpasses could win a years service of free rides or something to that affect. I learned that when people hear the word win free, they jump at the chance to win something.

Also if SEPTA wasn't so damn greedy they could take and stop trying to rob the hobby manfactuers (sp) & let them design their models so they could make a little change as well.

No offense but just about everyone @ 1234 MARKET STREET needs to be laid off. I honestly think they have been sent in on purpose to make people hate public transportation & they are doing a very good job of it....IMO

Myke I would have to agree with you on all points. In fact, I think SEPTA should start by laying off and disbanding the entire transit police force. They are completely useless after I had an experience at 46th Street. I work for SEPTA and they couldn't even help me. Those guys are more interested in when their shift ends than providing security. Sub the security out to a private company along with the PHL police. Let the cops handle the bad areas, and have 'security personnel' at the less problematic areas.

The SEPTA cops can't even keep panhandlers out of Market East. Wonder how much they spend on their transit police force each year.

Well guys, you aren't alone in "SEPTA-land"--- WMATA is trying to avoid its second fare increase in four years because Metro has a serious shortfall. WMATA is now floating the idea of allowing banks to put ATM's in the rail stations ( for a fee of course). Your observations about SEPTA's transit police may be accurate, but things can also go too far the other way--- there is a notorious story here about the Metro transit Police who arrested a 12 year old girl for carrying an open bag of potato chips into a Metrorail station. Metrorail is much cleaner than the SEPTA ( and PTC before it) subway system, but that story was overkill!

A Brilliant Way To Save Money For Septa......

Run all bus routes on a consistent 15 minute or less headway and save on schedule printing.


That'll be the day

Stop printing schedules for bus routes every 4 months. The only changes are the addition and removal of school trips. How about denoting which runs are school trips and note on the schedule that they operate only during the school season.

Increase headways on everything. Most ordinary people don't even consider riding SEPTA because it takes longer. Why does it take longer? Because if you have a multi-seat ride (train-El-Bus, etc) you spend more time waiting for the next leg than the total time spent on the vehicles. If people knew they could walk down to an El station and be on one within 5 minutes people might give it a shot. But unless your riding peak hours or before 8pm, you could have up to a 20 minute wait. Unacceptable.

SEPTA fails to grasp the concept that the system has fixed costs, and those costs increase when the fleet's idle time increases, so all of those Silverliners at Penn Coach yard, or Roberts Ave are generating zero revenue while sucking down volts as they bake in the sun.

With the current number of Silverliners, what is the approximate lowest headway possible if it were uniform accross the system (all lines had the same headway), considering a normal (not by SEPTA standards) number of unavailable units due to repair and service?