35 dead in Spanish train derailement

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/ar ... d=10902971" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Certainly a bad month worldwide for train accidents.

David Benton wrote:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/ar ... d=10902971
Certainly a bad month worldwide for train accidents.

It's still too soon to say what the real cause of this crash was. BBC is reporting 50 deaths already. I suspect the track was not up to standard for the speed of the train.

the BBC coverage.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23442018" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Concerning the state of the track (also in the French accident), it is possible the rails buckled by the heat. Sam

Just visually, it appears as if the rails are very light, especially for a curve like that, particularly if it's as reported that the train was travelling at a good clip.

Death toll at 77. God help those affected by this
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/25/world/eur ... _inthenews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3rdrail wrote:Just visually, it appears as if the rails are very light, especially for a curve like that, particularly if it's as reported that the train was travelling at a good clip.

Remember its Spanish broad gauge, so the rails will look lower compared to the width.

It now seems fairly certain the train was traveling at excessive speed.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/ar ... d=10903297" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David Benton wrote:

3rdrail wrote:Just visually, it appears as if the rails are very light, especially for a curve like that, particularly if it's as reported that the train was travelling at a good clip.

Remember its Spanish broad gauge, so the rails will look lower compared to the width.

Apparently on that curve, not part of the new high speed line, the proper speed was 88kph (about 55 mph) but the driver was going at least twice that, possibly to catch up on earlier delays. It seems to me that computer software ought to be able to slow a train exceeding the speed limit by so much. If software does not yet reduce speed perhaps it is time new software was written.

I think the driver will be blamed and found guilty.

The last time I travelled in Spain from the French frontier to Algeciras by conventional trains (30 years ago) I enjoyed my journeys.

Driver was just arrested at the hopital. Was quoted saying, "I f*cked up. I want to die".

Had posted on Facebook last year photo of speedometer going twice the speed limit! Doesn't look good.

Death toll was at 80 but they lowered it to 78 after matching some body parts together. Sounds very very nasty.

Initial reports seemed to indicate there were two drivers. That now seems to be changed to there was the first driver, who handed over to the 2nd driver.
The question remains, was there a automatic speed control system, was it functioning correctly, or was the driver able to override it.

the other question in my mind, the driver obviously thought he could get away with over twice the speed limit, and had done so in the past. I wonder what sort of safety margin there is. Normally, I would have thought, 25 % or so over the speed limit and you would derail, over twice the speed limit is just mind boggling.

The deaths and injuries are tragic, each hurting familes.
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On a far lesser aspect: What is the axle arrangement on these coaches? I presume it is not the original Talgo design with one axle per car.
Thanks.

David Benton wrote:Initial reports seemed to indicate there were two drivers. That now seems to be changed to there was the first driver, who handed over to the 2nd driver.
The question remains, was there a automatic speed control system, was it functioning correctly, or was the driver able to override it.

the other question in my mind, the driver obviously thought he could get away with over twice the speed limit, and had done so in the past. I wonder what sort of safety margin there is. Normally, I would have thought, 25 % or so over the speed limit and you would derail, over twice the speed limit is just mind boggling.

It suggests a rail culture lacking discipline. He appears not to have understood the physical reason for speed limits. I don't have any plans to visit Spain but if I did I would feel wary about travelling in any train.

David Benton wrote:

3rdrail wrote:Just visually, it appears as if the rails are very light, especially for a curve like that, particularly if it's as reported that the train was travelling at a good clip.

Remember its Spanish broad gauge, so the rails will look lower compared to the width.

Actually , it is not clear to me, if the train was on Standard or broad gauge tracks at the time of the accident.
The "Trains" news wire article mentions it had changed gauge 3 times on its journey. it also mentions a third, Broad gauge track, (non electrified), which would tend to suggest it was on standard gauge track.

David Benton wrote:

David Benton wrote:

3rdrail wrote:Just visually, it appears as if the rails are very light, especially for a curve like that, particularly if it's as reported that the train was travelling at a good clip.

Remember its Spanish broad gauge, so the rails will look lower compared to the width.

Actually , it is not clear to me, if the train was on Standard or broad gauge tracks at the time of the accident.
The "Trains" news wire article mentions it had changed gauge 3 times on its journey. it also mentions a third, Broad gauge track, (non electrified), which would tend to suggest it was on standard gauge track.

I think all the high speed tracks are standard gauge but the other tracks are mostly broad gauge. This would mean that the wheels are adjusted at the changeover points. I believe the long term plan is to eliminate broad gauge on all routes.

The TV pictures of the accident scene show broad gauge on all tracks.