• 1960's Boston & Maine - Questions

  • Discussion relating to the pre-1983 B&M and MEC railroads. For current operations, please see the Pan Am Railways Forum.
Discussion relating to the pre-1983 B&M and MEC railroads. For current operations, please see the Pan Am Railways Forum.

Moderator: MEC407

  by Cadet57
 
So my new layout is set in the late 60's. 1968-69 to be exact. I am modeling a portion of the Boston and Maine River Line. I do have a few questions on what sort of rolling stock I should be placing on my layout:

Boxcars? I have some 40' boxes, mostly with 1950's build dates. I removed the roofwalks because from photos i've seen, most were gone by then

Reefer cars? Were they using ice cars this late or was it all mechanical by then?

Tank cars?

Roadnames? Its a New England layout, so MEC, VTR, DH, PRR, would any cars ever make it from out west or from down south?
  by chrisnewhaven
 
I could be wrong but didn't the B&M and Central Vermont share a portion of the line? If so, Central Vermont equipment is a must. For rolling stock, don't forget the New Haven, Canadian Pacific/National, and Erie Lackawanna (EL traffic moving via D&H). New York Central had a large interchange with the B&M, and I think it would be more likely to find NYC cars than PRR cars here. Also, if you model a warehouse along the line, you have the possibility of potato traffic in Bangor & Aroostook insulated boxcars. In the off season these cars moved news print, so they could be used for that too. Finally, from what photo's I've seen, boxcars kept there roof walks until there were either rebuilt or retired, so cars without roof walks would be built post 1960 or so.
C.J.V.
  by Eliphaz
 
A few suggestions,traffic to and from Canada always brought lots of CN and CP box cars down the valley, still does I suppose.
Grain hoppers came from out west for the feed towers in Deerfield and Northfield.
flatcars loaded with lumber were and still are a common sight.
  by Desertdweller
 
Chris,

I wasn't around New England in those years, but 1968 was the year I became intensely interested in railroading. Maybe some observations of what equipment was being used in that time frame would be helpful to you.

Mention was made of grain traffic. In those years, small elevators were still shipping grain, much of it still in boxcars. Standard 40 & 50' boxcars with sliding doors were used. A large plug called a grain door, made of planks and heavy cardboard, was installed inside the door opening. The elevator spout was inserted into a space between the top of the grain door and the top of the door opening to fill the car. The sliding door was then closed and a seal applied. Unloading involved a shovel.
Athern actually sold 40' grainloader HO boxcars, with a small inspection door at the top of the sliding door.

High cube boxcars made their first appearance about then. At first, they were simply extra height 40' or 50' cars. Then, in the late 60's, the 89' hi-cubes appeared. They were much more common then than now. I suppose much of their former traffic now travels in containers.

89' flat cars for TOFC appeared, but no articulated TOFC flats yet. Trailers on flats were common, but containers were not. I don't think containers were standardized yet.

89' auto racks were in use then, but they were open-sided, not enclosed like they are now.

Wooden bodied, steel underframe boxcars and reefers were still in use. Most reefers were mechanical, but ice-cooled cars were still being used. Insulated box cars were common.

All freight trains, except mixed freight-passenger trains, used cabooses. Mixed freight-passenger trains were still in use. The passenger cars had to be blocked next to the locomotives if they were steam-heated. In that case, a caboose would be used, too. If the passenger cars had self-contained heating units, they could be carried behind the freight cars and serve as a caboose.

Standard, non-streamlined passenger cars were still in use, especially head-end cars and cars used on secondary trains.

Motive power was a mix of first and second generation Diesels. Virtually all Diesel locomotive models produced after WWII were still in service. Passenger trains were heated (and sometimes cooled) by steam.

Steam locomotives were not used, but were still in evidence. Locomotive tenders were often seen used as water cars in work train service. Not all the retired steamers had been scrapped-you might sometimes see some rusting away in a dead line.

Track maintenance crews were still housed in camp cars when on the road. These cars were almost always old heavyweights. Each railroad tended to have a standard color for their work train equipment: everything from locomotive tenders to camp cars would be painted the same standard color.

Steam power was still in use in the Engineering Department. Pile drivers; rotary snow plows, cranes would either be powered by steam or Diesel.

The steam locomotives may be rusting away in the weeds, but roundhouses and turntables were still in use. Water towers and coaling docks were generally still standing. They were expensive to dismantle, and their removal was not a high priority.

I hope this gives you some helpful ideas.

Les
  by Cadet57
 
chrisnewhaven wrote:I could be wrong but didn't the B&M and Central Vermont share a portion of the line? If so, Central Vermont equipment is a must. For rolling stock, don't forget the New Haven, Canadian Pacific/National, and Erie Lackawanna (EL traffic moving via D&H). New York Central had a large interchange with the B&M, and I think it would be more likely to find NYC cars than PRR cars here. Also, if you model a warehouse along the line, you have the possibility of potato traffic in Bangor & Aroostook insulated boxcars. In the off season these cars moved news print, so they could be used for that too. Finally, from what photo's I've seen, boxcars kept there roof walks until there were either rebuilt or retired, so cars without roof walks would be built post 1960 or so.
C.J.V.
You would be correct. The CV and B&M shared the line about 30 miles from where my layout is set.
Desertdweller wrote:Chris,

I wasn't around New England in those years, but 1968 was the year I became intensely interested in railroading. Maybe some observations of what equipment was being used in that time frame would be helpful to you.

Mention was made of grain traffic. In those years, small elevators were still shipping grain, much of it still in boxcars. Standard 40 & 50' boxcars with sliding doors were used. A large plug called a grain door, made of planks and heavy cardboard, was installed inside the door opening. The elevator spout was inserted into a space between the top of the grain door and the top of the door opening to fill the car. The sliding door was then closed and a seal applied. Unloading involved a shovel.
Athern actually sold 40' grainloader HO boxcars, with a small inspection door at the top of the sliding door.

High cube boxcars made their first appearance about then. At first, they were simply extra height 40' or 50' cars. Then, in the late 60's, the 89' hi-cubes appeared. They were much more common then than now. I suppose much of their former traffic now travels in containers.

89' flat cars for TOFC appeared, but no articulated TOFC flats yet. Trailers on flats were common, but containers were not. I don't think containers were standardized yet.

89' auto racks were in use then, but they were open-sided, not enclosed like they are now.

Wooden bodied, steel underframe boxcars and reefers were still in use. Most reefers were mechanical, but ice-cooled cars were still being used. Insulated box cars were common.

All freight trains, except mixed freight-passenger trains, used cabooses. Mixed freight-passenger trains were still in use. The passenger cars had to be blocked next to the locomotives if they were steam-heated. In that case, a caboose would be used, too. If the passenger cars had self-contained heating units, they could be carried behind the freight cars and serve as a caboose.

Standard, non-streamlined passenger cars were still in use, especially head-end cars and cars used on secondary trains.

Motive power was a mix of first and second generation Diesels. Virtually all Diesel locomotive models produced after WWII were still in service. Passenger trains were heated (and sometimes cooled) by steam.

Steam locomotives were not used, but were still in evidence. Locomotive tenders were often seen used as water cars in work train service. Not all the retired steamers had been scrapped-you might sometimes see some rusting away in a dead line.

Track maintenance crews were still housed in camp cars when on the road. These cars were almost always old heavyweights. Each railroad tended to have a standard color for their work train equipment: everything from locomotive tenders to camp cars would be painted the same standard color.

Steam power was still in use in the Engineering Department. Pile drivers; rotary snow plows, cranes would either be powered by steam or Diesel.

The steam locomotives may be rusting away in the weeds, but roundhouses and turntables were still in use. Water towers and coaling docks were generally still standing. They were expensive to dismantle, and their removal was not a high priority.

I hope this gives you some helpful ideas.

Les
Thank you so much! This is just what I was looking for. Seems I have most of the cars I'll need.
Eliphaz wrote:A solitary Budd RDC would also be right at home.
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 714675.jpg
Just bought two undec, new in box Athearn RDC's for $15. The powered runs great. Going to swap out the band drive for the Ernst gear drive and throw in a decoder.

I have about 15 of these Athearn boxcars I inherited, would these be out of place in my era?

Image
  by Desertdweller
 
Chris,

Yes. That box car should fit right in.

A couple more things I thought of. Work trains on some railroads used old Pullman-built troop train cars. These were the ones that were built on the lines of 40' box cars.

A lot of passenger trains were still running then, but due to the loss of mail contracts in 1967, were hurting. Many long-distance trains were reduced to a handful of cars. Many of these, even overnight runs, operated without sleepers or dining cars. Only a very few deluxe trains carried observation cars. Other passenger trains were operating only because the ICC would not allow them to be dropped. These trains usually consisted of a single locomotive, pulling one or two coaches. These trains would probably have run with just an RDC, but by that time, not many railroads still used them.

Of course, there was an excess of passenger locomotives without passenger trains to haul. Often these wound up in freight service.

Les
  by Eliphaz
 
engines in GTW paint were a common sight on the CV and could be seen in E.Deerfield right up to the end.
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 316552.jpg
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 025939.jpg
Im just browsing NErail now
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 718920.jpg
trucks on flat beds, Hooker Chemical, Cement hopper from ErieRR
forest products everywhere
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 714918.jpg
heres a 40 foot box car with the roofwalk removed
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 626121.jpg
a short extra with a very special tank car
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 611796.jpg

isnt the internet amazing. In the 70s and 80s, I would avidly cut pictures of trains out of magazines and paste them into a scrap book(which I still have), and maybe find 10-20 pictures a year of New England railroads.
now, I just spent an hour clicking through about 2000 photos until I got bored.
  by 3rdrail
 
Ya gotta throw in a bunch of Penn Centrals, if only for comical reasons. Seriously though, a while ago I saw a neat paint job that somebody puts out that has a boxcar painted up in the Penn Central with the New Haven showing through ! I think that you could get them with Pennsy also. I wished that I had bought a couple and I don't even run freight !
  by CNJ999
 
Point of information regarding Roof Walks. Roof walks were not allowed to be employed on cars built, or rebuilt, after October 1 of 1966. Cars built before that date could continue in service with their existing roof walks until...supposedly...April, 1, 1974. But I believe even that cut-off date was further extended by some years (as such cut-off dates usually are).

So, if you are modeling 1968-69, freight cars with roof walks would be quite prototypical if mixed in with some cars without them.

CNJ999
  by dti406
 
First of all 60' and 86' Auto Parts cars were introduced in 1964, most of these cars were in the auto parts business and unless your railroad had a stamping plant (86' cars) or a auto parts supplier on it, you would not see them. Although some of the 60' cars were used in paper hauling business by a few railroads.

Penn Central cars in the late 60's were either new or repaints that were in pristine condition, the bad weathering on these cars was not until after Conrail if they were not going to repaint the PC cars. Eight years is a short time for really bad weathering effects on a newly painted car.

Rick J
  by Cadet57
 
dti406 wrote:First of all 60' and 86' Auto Parts cars were introduced in 1964, most of these cars were in the auto parts business and unless your railroad had a stamping plant (86' cars) or a auto parts supplier on it, you would not see them. Although some of the 60' cars were used in paper hauling business by a few railroads.
Nope, only industries are a Brewery, meat company, tire plant, and eventually paper mills when I build a second module.
  by Desertdweller
 
The hi-cube cars were used to haul things that did not weigh a lot in comparison to the volume they occupied. Stamped sheet metal car body parts, sure. But they could also carry things like cases of breakfast cereal or tissue paper. They were also used to carry household appliances that were large but not particularly heavy, like clothes washers and dryers, or stoves or refrigerators.

I do not think it would be a stretch to use these cars to carry tires from your tire factory.

Don't forget the carbon black hoppers.

Les
  by Engineer Spike
 
B&M used its older power on the Conn River in the 1960s. There are some video of it on Youtube. The F units and RS3s were common. The GP7s were too. You may see an occasional Bluebird GP9 or 18. B&M did not get any newer power until the 200 series GP38-2s of 1973. They may have gotten up there, but I'm sure they mostly were used between Portland and Mechanicville.

CP would have pooled older Alco/MLW power.