#14 Orange Line Cars 1400-1551 (From Red/Orange Procurement discussion)

3rdrail wrote:

jamesinclair wrote:If cars and buses and (gasp) schoolbuses can run around with nothing more than badly trained drivers and visual signals....why should a subway line, with highly trained drivers, be forced to implement something like ATO?

Ask that to the passengers in the Chatsworth or Highland Branch collisions.

Should we poll the 40,000 killed in auto accidents every year?

People shrug it off, but when two trains bump into each other at Boylston and the biggest injury is a broken nail, people scream that the MBTA isnt safe?

jamesinclair wrote:Should we poll the 40,000 killed in auto accidents every year?

People shrug it off, but when two trains bump into each other at Boylston and the biggest injury is a broken nail, people scream that the MBTA isnt safe?

To a certain extent it's all psychological. You're in control of the car you are driving so people tell themselves that "I know what I am doing this would never happen to me" even though it could. Taking a train is different because you aren't in control of what is going on and do not know the person who is operating the vehicle you are traveling in. The fact that you are merely along for the ride adds to the fear.

Any news on this? And I reading and found this ...

Orange Line No. 14 Car Procurement
This project will fund the design of the next generation vehicle for the Orange Line.
The procurement of new cars will be needed to allow the retirement of the No. 12
fleet. In addition, the Authority expects to use elements of this design for the
procurement of the vehicles that will replace Red Line No. 1 cars.

And this is listed as a Funded Project ($80 Million). I believe this is just the design of the train, but $80 million doesn't make sense for me. And they don't seem to have money for the Red Line Train. If you read the Red Line...

Red Line No. 1 Replacement Fleet
New cars will be needed to allow the retirement of No. 1 cars. It is the intention of the
Authority to be consistent with the procurement of the new Orange Line fleet.
Coordinating these two efforts the Authority will be able to save on maintenance and
inventory costs, as well as on personnel training.

It seem like they will be order at the same time, and built by the same company and prop. share some same parts. And if you read Under Red Line NO. 1 Replacement Fleet, the MBTA wants to replace the 1700 too. But they don't have any fund for the Red Line Train yet. I am still wondering how it'll look like (Hoping for change)

You can read these info http://mbta.com/uploadedFiles/About_the ... 9-FY13.pdf

Did the T forget that there aren't any #13 Orange Line cars?

This is a Draft, but yea, I Hope the 80 Million $ includes the 150 train (1300) not just the design of the train...

$80 million is far more than it should take to design the cars, and far less than it will cost to build them. The latter would likely be in the range of $200 million or more.

Yea, 200 Million would be a good spot, any thing higher then 230 Million would be over price (err, Blue Line train are over priced) I prefer Siemens SITRAC AC traction motor and propulsion. But I think Kawasaki, or Bombardier (prefer Bombardier) would be a good builder. I think Stainless Steel would not be good for Red and Orange Line, because they cost more going back to Aluminium would be much cheaper.

Orange Line train and Red Line train is just too old, they got to replace them ASAP (once they have fund). MBTA should ask what rider would like to see in their new trains.

MBTA3247 wrote:Did the T forget that there aren't any #13 Orange Line cars?

Triskaidekaphobia, perhaps?

The 01200 series overlaps into the 01300 range, perhaps why.

Any news on these new trains for Red and Orange LIne?

Any idea how many miles are on the Hawker Siddley cars? I rode them every day for 4 years commuting to college, and developed a weird fondness for them, will be kinda sad to see them go. Overall, they've been pretty damn reliable IMO when you consider how old and well-worn they are.

The Orange Line cars have over 1,100,000 miles on them. (source)

I think the new Red Line and Orange Line cars should both be wired for future conversion to combination catenary and third rail (like the Blue Line cars). In the case of the Red Line, it would allow for future conversion of the Old Colony lines to overhead electric. In the case of the Orange Line, it would allow for future extension to Reading.

Charliemta wrote:In the case of the Red Line, it would allow for future conversion of the Old Colony lines to overhead electric.

Why would they want to convert that section of the Red Line to catenary? It costs more to build and maintain, and there are no plans to extend the line beyond Braintree.

MBTA3247 wrote:

Charliemta wrote:In the case of the Red Line, it would allow for future conversion of the Old Colony lines to overhead electric.

Why would they want to convert that section of the Red Line to catenary? It costs more to build and maintain, and there are no plans to extend the line beyond Braintree.

If the Old Colony Lines were to be converted to electric someday, it would have to be catenary for at least the parts that have grade crossings. The sections that don't, including the part through Dorchester, could be third rail.

If that happened, then the Old Colony through Dorchester could be combined with the Braintree Branch of the Red Line. Doing that would allow a three track system: two tracks plus a third express track which could operate inbound in the morning and outbound in the aftrenoon. It would eliminate the existing one-track bottleneck that the Old Colony experiences for much of its length through Boston and Quincy. The Old Colony could still go straight into South Station, and make use of the Cabot Yards for electric car storage.

So, to plan for such possibities of car-sharing between the Red Line and Old Colony line, the new Red Line cars should be outfitted for future catenary, just like the old Orange Line cars were.