100 recommendations

Sometime next week, I plan to ride the 100. What is it like in terms of scenery. How is the Norristown transit center area, and how many freights roll through there?

In my best travelogue mode, here goes:

Leaving 69th Street you'll be able to see the El and Media/Sharon Hill storage and maintenance yards on your right. The 100 facilities will be on your left. There may be a few of the old CTA cars parked there; not sure since I haven't been on the line in a few weeks.

After that you'll go through some of the older suburban communities like Penfield and Beechwood. Look on the right for some concrete pillars that are all that's left of the P&W's failed attempt at an amusement park ~80 years ago.

It's a shame you can't wait a few weeks till spring is in full tilt since the line goes through some heavily wooded areas and it's pretty spectacular when everything is blooming.

At Ardmore Junction you can see the paved busway that was once the Red Arrow's Ardmore trolley line, destroyed in 1967. Look to your left; it still has the old trolley shelters in place.

Bryn Mawr is a major station and the last one outbound with a pocket track. After that you'll start to parallel Lancaster Pike (PA 30) and will be running about the same distance south of the pike as the R5 is to the north. You'll be in the somewhat newer and much pricier Main Line area.

There are 2 stops in Villanova, one for the stadium and one for the university proper. Sit on the left side of the car and watch just after the university station. You should be able to see the old ROW from the line's original routing to Strafford, pulled up in 1956.

The line will curve to the right across Lancaster Pike and go under PA 476 at Radnor. That's another major station serving schools and a business park. You'll go under the R5 (local opposition has long prevented a joint station from being constructed, grumble) and head into somewhat more rural territory. Gulph Mills is a very old community and is a major transfer point to the 124/125 buses from CC to K of P, and some 123s from Upper Darby to K of P. SEPTA calls it a "transit center" but in reality it's just a big, poorly-lit parking lot with two pathetic half-shelters.

There are dormant plans to build a spur from the existing ROW to the K of P malls, veering off somewhere north of Gulph Mills, but don't expect to see anyone surveying (this is SEPTA, remember). After Hughes Park there's a fairly long straight stretch where the drivers used to let the throttles open on the old Bullets, but the N-5's are limited to about 55 or 60 mi/hr (grumble again).

King Manor is the first station in the Norristown area; it's a slightly gritty older community quite different from what you saw in the Main Line area. The rib house at King Manor has great food, btw! You'll go through a small-business area in Bridgeport where the tracks will converge into a single line on the famous high-rail bridge across the Schuylkill.

After that you'll enter the Norristown TC. In the Red Arrow era the line used to continue on a bit further but was cut back when the new 2-track terminal was constructed. In the old days (pre-1951) it went on beyond and joined the Allentown-bound Liberty Bell line at ground level. The current TC is not one of my favorite places. It looks nice from the outside but inside has all the ambiance of an east European Soviet-era office building. At least the upper level 100 platform gives you a good view of the R6 below. There are some freights sharing the line during the day but I'm not sure of the schedule.

There are some good photos at:

http://www.phillytrolley.org/
http://world.nycsubway.org/us/phila/norristown.html
http://www.pennways.com/PW_Route_100.html
http://www.trainweb.org/railpix/septa5.html

and many others (Google gets about 700 hits for SEPTA and "Route 100")

Enjoy!!

What is it like in terms of scenery

There's a lot of scenery. The view of the Schuylkill River as you cross from Norristown to Bridgeport can be quite striking. Lots of nice neighborhoods all over the line, as well as some (suburban) "wilderness." At various points, the Trenton Cut-off and the R5 Paoli Main Line pass overhead. At 69th Street there's a nice view of the Rts. 101 and 102 trolleys, El trains, and maintenance/washing facilities.

ow is the Norristown transit center area

It's fine during the day, (just watch out for the bikers on the bike path).

how many freights roll through there?

Several throughout the day. I've seen them often around 7:15-7:30 in the morning, later in the morning (9-10), and throughout the afternoon.

Hope that helps, and enjoy the ride!

Was there ever freight service on the P&W?

Isn't there a spur somewhere in Bridgeport? (been a while, i think that's where it was)

back in the day, when the P&W actually was doing its best to be the Philadelphia and Western railroad, they built track connections to the Cardington Branch at Millbourne, the Main Line at Strafford, and i believe the Reading line that parallelled the trenton cutoff at bridgeport. The Cardington Branch connection was used to deliver cars, such as the Bullets, and the Electroliners, towed all the way from Chicago. Speaking of Chicago, keep an eye out on the left side leaving 69th street, you'll see the last pair of Chicago El cars that filled the gap between the Brill Bullets and the Adtranz (Bombardier) N-5s you will be riding.

On the question of Freights, I don't know that P&W or Red Arrow provided much freight service, but I've seen old pictures of SVT Liberty Bell Limited freight cars, which may have operated over the line.

One neat feature along the way is the fill between the Rosemont and Garrett Hill stops. It doesn't look like much going over it, but its pretty impressive driving through its tunnel. Probably 40-50 feet tall, few hundred yards long. Also check out the bridge at the Ardmore Ave stop, its pretty much the only one that hasn't been rebuilt in recent years, you can see where there would have been room for 2 more tracks if the railroad had taken off.

tinmad dog wrote:... you can see where there would have been room for 2 more tracks if the railroad had taken off.

Yup, the original ROW was graded for 4 tracks at least as far as Bryn Mawr. It's most obvious at Ardmore Ave. but it's possible see hints of wider clearances at a few other places as well. There are a few stations whose inbound platforms sit in the middle of the original ROW, so they have long bridge-like walkways connecting them to their parking lots.

AlexC wrote:Isn't there a spur somewhere in Bridgeport?

IIRC there was a spur near Hughes Park that served Columbia Boiler and some of the other small manufacturing companies in and around Church Road. At least one routing for the now-dormant/dead Plaza spur would have followed essentially the same path.

There's also a large platform near Bridgeport that was built (or maybe re-built) relatively recently. I'm not sure if it ever served freight, but it has been used as a bus-transfer point when service across the bridge has been suspended due to weather or equipment problems.

There's also a spur at King Manor where they park some MOW equipment.

There's also a large platform near Bridgeport that was built (or maybe re-built) relatively recently. I'm not sure if it ever served freight, but it has been used as a bus-transfer point when service across the bridge has been suspended due to weather or equipment problems.

I've always wondered what that was for. It looked fairly new and yet served no obvious purpose. It seems kind of out-of-character for SEPTA to build any sort of contingency plan like that, but I guess anything is possible.

Are there any clear windows where I could look out of the rear on the N5s, just like the River Line cars?

The N-5 Route 100 cars are double-ended, so you have a full operator's cab at both ends, with a sliding door that is usually kept closed and locked when not in use. I think the glass in the sliding door is tinted, and there are sunshades in the windshield, so it's probably difficult to look out the back.

If there aren't too many passengers, you could look out the front of the car, since the cab area is quite spacious. The N-5 is 65 feet long (almost 10ft longer than an M-4 car on the El), 8ft-9in wide, and seats 56 people. There are three doors on each side, a large double door at the front and a small door at the back. I've never actually seen them use the back door except at 69th St Terminal, where no fare is collected. You pay your fare at the outlying station when you leave, if you are starting at 69th St.

Take a virtual tour at:

http://world.nycsubway.org/us/phila/norristown.html

Lucius Kwok wrote:I've never actually seen them use the back door except at 69th St Terminal, where no fare is collected. You pay your fare at the outlying station when you leave, if you are starting at 69th St.

Correct. The rear doors aren't used because of fare collection practices. Payment is always made at the outlying station regardless of direction. That's the old Red Arrow practice, so njt/mnrrbuff, you'll have to hang onto your MFSE transfer till you exit. In addition you'll have to pay the zone charge separately when leaving, but you can combine the zone and transfer payments when you board for the return trip.

Make sure you have tokens so you avoid the 70c cash fare differential / surcharge / whatever you want to call it.

The difference between PTC and Red Arrow practices has never been smoothed out and causes endless amounts of inconvenience and confusion for any rider going beyond Zone 1 (Bryn Mawr). 99% of the riders are used to the idea of a split payment but I've actually seen a few who are so flummoxed (btw., not dummies - one was a PhD chemist) that they gave up and just paid two separate fares.

Jeff,
I will not approach 69th from the MFL; I will be riding the regional rail out to Cynwyd, and then transferring to a bus, and then I will approach 69th from that way. I also will try to get the daypass. Do they have them at 30th street? I will save loads of muney that way, as I will not be going bask and fourth on the same lines. What should I expect to see on the R6 to Norristown also?

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Jeff, I will not approach 69th from the MFL; I will be riding the regional rail out to Cynwyd, and then transferring to a bus, and then I will approach 69th from that way. I also will try to get the daypass. Do they have them at 30th street? I will save loads of muney that way, as I will not be going back and forth on the same lines. What should I expect to see on the R6 to Norristown also?

AFAIK it should be possible to buy a Daypass at 30th St. Since I generally used a Transpass when I commuted I don't have a lot of details about daypasses - not sure if you can buy them at the Regional Rail windows; if not you may have to go to the subway cashier in the concourse below Market St.

Unfortunately while daypasses are good for unlimited transit rides, they're valid for only one trip on the RRD. If you have a lot of RRD trips planned, an alternative would be to buy a City Division weekly Transpass at the start of a week and schedule your visit for the following weekend when the pass has unlimited privileges on all routes including the RRD. According to the SEPTA website Transpasses are only sold through Tuesday of the valid week so you'd have to buy in advance. A weekly pass is $18.75 which is a lot more than the daypass but it may still end up as the most cost-effective alternative. Remember, this is SEPTA where nothing is ever uncomplicated.

I rode the R6 Norristown line for a number of years and at least IMHO much of it doesn't have a lot of interesting scenery to offer. You'll go through the North Philly area up to Temple U. and North Broad - typical urban areas, rather gritty and run-down, and then branch off to 22nd and Allegheny. East Falls is worth a look because of the river - lots of people park along the side of the tracks and go fishing. Wissahickon is a major transfer point, again run-down but heavily used by people switching to buses for other points in CC and to King of Prussia.

The line runs pretty much at street level with a lot of grade crossings. Manayunk is an older row-house community. Once you get out to Miquon and nearby, things will become more rural and you'll run parallel to the Schuylkill River for quite a distance. There are a lot of homes built on the riverbank so it can be interesting to see them, as well as look across the river at traffic on the Expressway. Look out the right side of the train and you should begin to see remnants of the competing PRR line that ran till around 1960. Much of it has been converted to a bike trail but the catenary poles were never taken down and act as landmarks. (As an aside, I also cycle a lot and it's a strange feeling to be pedalling along under the overheads!)

The line will run very close to the river around Conshohocken. There have been several times during heavy storms when it's flooded out, including one where a car was trapped and they had to remove the passengers by boat.

There's a fairly long run from Conshy to the NTC. The river is great scenery, but the other side has mostly older warehouses and businesses, plus you'll pass (gag, choke) the local sewage-treatment facility. At the NTC you'll come in on ground level and pass under the upper-level P&W platform. There's no fully enclosed connection between the two so you'll have to go outside for a short distance. The line curves north for a short distance to the nearby Main Street and Elm Street stations. There's a small storage area at Elm Street where a few extra cars are usually parked. The line dead-ends at Elm; there have been proposals over the years to extend it up the Stony (or Stoney) Creek freight branch but as with everything else SEPTA-related, no action has been taken.

Looking forward to hearing your impressions - please post pics if that's possible!

AFAIK it should be possible to buy a Daypass at 30th St. Since I generally used a Transpass when I commuted I don't have a lot of details about daypasses - not sure if you can buy them at the Regional Rail windows; if not you may have to go to the subway cashier in the concourse below Market St.

I'm pretty sure they're available at 30th Street. I'm fairly certain that it's also possible to ask for a daypass on the train, and the conductor will mark the ticket to indicate you purchased one, then you can trade that in for a proper daypass. Of course, leaving from 30th St, you'd be paying a $2 penalty to do that, but it's useful information if you ever get on where there's no ticket window.

I always liked the scenery on the Norristown line, but i'm also a local history buff who finds every fallen and abandoned brick along the tracks interesting. If you're really lucky, there'll be a freight train running on the other side of the river parallel to yours. I was able to follow a train all the way into the city until I couldn't see the tracks anymore that way. (By the way JeffK, maybe things have changed since you rode the Norristown line, but I've never smelled anything bad at the sewage plant )

One thing you might find mildly interesting to look for in N. Philly around Allegheny thru Temple is all the remains of trolley tracks and poles, freight sidings, and the Reading Viaduct to Reading Terminal.

Thanks for the follow-up re daypass usage. That's one of the few aspects of the system that's always been a bit of a gray area for me, partly because for a long time there wasn't even good info available from SEPTA itself. They have firmer information on the website now, but a few years back was a different matter. I tried to buy a daypass for a visiting friend; one sales outlet had no clue what the rules were and 2 others gave me conflicting stories.

I forgot to mention the highline freight trestle that crosses the river perpendicular to the R6 around Conshohocken, and the fact that you can see the P&W bridge as you come into Norristown. If you're lucky a car will be headed in or out as you're coming up via the R6.

And as far as the treatment facility goes, in cool weather there's generally no problem. However, there were a few July days when things became a bit, uh, well, odoriferous, even inside the train. And I don't want to try to describe the experience when passing by on two wheels...

There's quite a bit of history along the R6 Norristown line, the former Philadelphia, Germantown and Norristown Railroad.

The Shawmont station was the oldest original station building still in use, built in 1834, but the station closed on November 10, 1996. I haven't seen it recently, but it was a private residence last time I was there.

Flat Rock Dam is just south of Shawmont, where the tracks go over a 30 mph speed restriction through a cut made into solid rock. This solid rock delayed the opening of the Norristown line for a few months in 1834 while they blasted through. (It only took 3 years from when the PG&N was chartered to finishing the line to Norristown, including the blasting. Can you imagine SEPTA doing anything that fast?)

The dam itself was part of the Schuylkill River navigation system, allowing coal barges to float downstream from Reading to Philadelphia. The dam is the start of the Manayunk canal. If you get off of the train at Manayunk, you can walk down and along the towpath that follows the canal, and get some pictures of Manayunk.

There's also the impressive Pennsylvania Railroad concrete viaduct over the Schuylkill River at Manayunk (a.k.a. the "Manayunk Bridge"), built in 1919 and renovated in 2001. This is probably the most photographed bridge in Manayunk, a sort of icon for the neighborhood.

Those are my three favorite structures around Manayunk. If you have time, you can find a lot of abandoned relics of its industrial past.