by lakeshoredave
cabooses are a thing of the past.
signed,
the pittsburgh pirates being a winning team
signed,
the pittsburgh pirates being a winning team
Railroad Forums
Moderator: Robert Paniagua
What if that little computer fails? Then what?What if the man fails? Then what?
... nowadays business is all about shareholder value, market share, bottom line, numbers, etc.That's what business has ALWAYS been about. Actually, it's quite easy to make the argument that corporations are now MORE employee-oriented than ever before.
Again I say what do you tell the unemployed railroad worker that he is no longer needed just so we can save money and pay someone else more?Good luck.
RedLantern wrote:It's the same concept as the fireman, when the railroads switched from steam to diesel, suddenly there was no practical need for the fireman. Notice that they didn't continue running steam for the sole purpose of keeping the firemen employed, that wouldn't make sense. Same thing with the brakemen, there used to be a brakeman every 4th car until the implementation of the Westinghouse pneumatic brake system. Once pneumatic brakes became the standard, there was no need to have a brakeman on every 4th car performing one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. When they came out with hirail trucks, there was no need for section crews since one crew could easily go anywhere on the system. When they came out with electric signals, there was no need for people to go around lighting the switch stand lanterns.
This is the way the railroads (and the rest of the world) works, it's progress, new technology comes out and it renders some jobs obsolete, it's bound to happen, and thus it does. Railroads don't invest in new technology for the sake of laying people off, they do it to improve safety and efficiency because what they care the most about is the bottom line, running a profitable business. The layoffs are a side effect of using newer technology, and as hard as it is on the employees, that's just the way it works. They come out with newer and more efficient technology and phase out older and less efficient technology.
airman00 wrote: Well you make a good point, I didn't think of it that way. Couldn't they just find some other job for guys like you mentioned to do within the company? And just curious it was mentioned it would cost $80,000 for a new caboose. What would it cost just to refurbish an old/exsisting one?I'm sure they don't just lay off everybody whose job is phased out, most likely they do give those employees other positions within the company. It's not that the individual employees are phased out, just the job functions that they do.
Maybe it would be a bit cheaper to fix a few up and keep them around?
One more thing too...I think at least for the remaining in service cabooses it should be so that they can be used fully, and as a caboose, not just as a shoving platform.
airman00 wrote:And it's gonna continue because the bottom line and objective is a profitable company and a return to its investors. If some of us had our way, the railroads would be still running steam choo choos, maintaining track with "gandy dancers", and running cabooses just because we think it is "pretty" and gives our cameras something to shoot! Trouble with that is, there'd not be too many railroads left to "foam" over. When the investment dries up, the profits and capital with which to run the company dries UP. Manpower ALWAYS is one of the things first to be replaced (if possible). It's just the way it is!Gadfly wrote:airman00 wrote:If you ask me, no more cabooses is a really bad idea. Replacing a human's eye's and ears, with a small computer with a blinking red light, just to save money is just plain stupid. And for those railroads that still have cabooses to close them up tight is equally stupid.Not necessarily. Surely folks here have not now just noticed the lack of cabs! They've been gone since the early 90's. With the advent of "Fred" or the EOT device that monitors for the things you bemoan, IF cabs were generally needed, they WOULD be used. But they, in truth, and for the most part, are part of the march of technology!
I would prefer to have a man or two, at the end of the train, then a computer. That branchline situation is a prime reason why change isn't always a good thing. Railroads will spend millions of dollars on engines and maintanence and the such like, but won't spend a dime on keeping a few cabooses around. The more technology replaces a job normally done by a person...well let's just say that's bad.
Tell the truth now. Isn't this more the laments of railbuffs than the realities of modern railroading? Admit it! IF the foamers had their way, railroads would still be running steam trains, maintaining track with "gandy dancers", and running little red cabooses just so the buffs could stand around and take pictures!!! Um, you'd also not have many railroads around to take pictures OF if they couldn't modernize! And cabs just AIN'T part of modern railroading anymore! Hey, I wish I had $.50 for every cab I supplied with coal, soap, towels and water back in the 80's!
GF
There is nothing wrong with modern technology. With today's advances in modern technology, it is quite amazing what can be done. I signed up recently for google earth, and it's pretty cool. However getting back, I've been saying that no cabooses is a bad idea, and not just because I like them. Reducing manpower isn't always a good idea. What if that little computer fails? Then what? You could just as easily have a man with a laptop computer in a caboose doing the same thing as that little blinking red light.
Now yes it is amazing that little device can do so much. But now railroad crews have been reduced from 3-5 men to just 2. Imagine being that guy who gets laid off because he's not needed anymore. Is that great? Technology is replacing too much of what humans used to do.
airman00 wrote:Not to be mean, but you sound as if you guys just now noticed that cabs are gone. I mean, this occurred over 20 years ago and we are NOW lamented the demise of the cab? Most of the cabooses were SOLD long ago and appeared in long lines awaiting scrapping or sale. Some of them became summer cabins and reverberate with the sound of kids on vacation, awaiting a call that will never come again. Others became fixtures in city parks for kids to climb in and over. A few did survive--not many.RedLantern wrote:It's the same concept as the fireman, when the railroads switched from steam to diesel, suddenly there was no practical need for the fireman. Notice that they didn't continue running steam for the sole purpose of keeping the firemen employed, that wouldn't make sense. Same thing with the brakemen, there used to be a brakeman every 4th car until the implementation of the Westinghouse pneumatic brake system. Once pneumatic brakes became the standard, there was no need to have a brakeman on every 4th car performing one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. When they came out with hirail trucks, there was no need for section crews since one crew could easily go anywhere on the system. When they came out with electric signals, there was no need for people to go around lighting the switch stand lanterns.
This is the way the railroads (and the rest of the world) works, it's progress, new technology comes out and it renders some jobs obsolete, it's bound to happen, and thus it does. Railroads don't invest in new technology for the sake of laying people off, they do it to improve safety and efficiency because what they care the most about is the bottom line, running a profitable business. The layoffs are a side effect of using newer technology, and as hard as it is on the employees, that's just the way it works. They come out with newer and more efficient technology and phase out older and less efficient technology.
Well you make a good point, I didn't think of it that way. Couldn't they just find some other job for guys like you mentioned to do within the company? And just curious it was mentioned it would cost $80,000 for a new caboose. What would it cost just to refurbish an old/exsisting one?
Maybe it would be a bit cheaper to fix a few up and keep them around?
One more thing too...I think at least for the remaining in service cabooses it should be so that they can be used fully, and as a caboose, not just as a shoving platform.
Passenger wrote:About riding platforms for reverse moves.Most railroads don't use a caboose for that purpose, the brakeman just hangs on to the ladder on the last car. If it's a really long move, some railroads will just put a spare locomotive on the end and let the conductor ride in the cab like it's a caboose, this is mainly done for local switchers though. If for some reason there was a problem with them riding on the ladder, they could always wear a harness clipped to a rung on the ladder, but I haven't seen this being done.
What is used when there isn't a spare caboose lying around? A flatcar?
RedLantern wrote:If the last car is a hopper, often times the conductor will ride inside the bulkhead.I could attest to that. When CSX has to back up to the mainline from the P&W yard in Worcester, the usual consist is two engines facing south making a reverse move. The conductor rides the ladder/bulkhead of the last car. I have witnessed them riding the hoppers in this fashion mentioned.