Who switched the Rochester Subway customers after 1957?

Sounds like the B&O was the last to inherit the Subway... since they served the last customers on the Subway, like Gannett and General Motors on the west end... and successor RSR picked up the Gannet traffic till 1996. all interesting stuff.

I would like to see photos or DOT diagrams of the Subway track running along side 490 in the 1970s... this is the first I ever heard of this operation...

-otto-

I came across some DICCS maps from the NYC. Revision date is 1-17-67, a coincidence considering today's date.

Going from the subway yard along South Ave, the track curved southeast and went under South Ave and South Clinton Ave, followed by a facing point switch to the right serving Samuel Hallaby Sanitary Products Inc (siding H-54) and Alliance Fence (H-56) farther in on the same track. This would be about where I-490 makes the right-hand turn before the straightaway.

Next the track goes under Alexander St, after which another facing point switch served Wm. Summerhays & Sons, H-70. Then the main went under Averill Ave, and there was a facing point switch just east of the bridge. The straight part continued east a ways and ended, no doubt at approximately ground level. Taking the turnout went up, and there was a TRAILING point switch leading back into Spring Sheet Metal Roofing Co, H-71. Going east past that switch led to Service Storage Co, H-74, and farther on that same track was Wm J. Renner Carting Co, H-76.

So there you have it - in about a half mile, there were no less than 6 customers. Most of those were pretty inactive by 1967 but wind the clock back a few years before than and there was probably a fair amount of traffic right there.

Also, between South and South Clinton was Fanny Farmer Candy, but this was served by another track coming from the yard rather than by the "main" if you can call it that.

That's incredible- they were building the Eastern Expressway around the same time as that map- they were probably building from Victor westward. Check out this page I just found:

http://www.rochester.lib.ny.us/rochimag/4thtravel.html

Shows images of the Subway route over the years, and highway construction on the Subway roadbed dated 1959. Further images can be found by searching the library's image collection. Just use keywords "rochester subway."

Would the Subway have shown up in any of the railroad's (NYC or B&O) employee timetables of the time?

-otto-

An interesting siding noted on the map - H-32, a short spur to the War Memorial! Wonder what they ever shipped in or out of there? I can't quite picture the circus train going down the subway, LOL. Probably one of those things called for in the design of the place but never used in actual practice.

Not sure when the war memorial was built but maybe a siding to deliver building materials?

Charles

..what is the difference between the Rochester Subway and the Erie electrified line to Mt.Morris?

Henry, I think you answered your own question. The Erie Rochester Branch was a steam road branch that was electrified from Exchange Street to Avon to Mount Morris- wires came down in 1930's, passenger trains came off in 1941. Rochester Subway was opened in 1927 by the City, built in the bed of the Erie Canal for freight and passenger service. Read all about the Rochester Subway here: http://railroad.net/articles/railfannin ... /index.php

nydepot wrote:Not sure when the war memorial was built but maybe a siding to deliver building materials?

IIRC - much of the matierals to build the War Memorial were brought in by rail and I also believe that the current site of the facility was part of the Erie RR yard.

The Subway was built for interchange with all the "steam" railroads. Only PRR and Erie did not have direct connections to the RSB. There was provision made in the Subway tunnel under Broad Street to make a connection and a ramp up to the Erie's Exchange Street Yard, but by 1948 the costs were deemed prohibitive (would have required blasting through rock), and the Erie could hand off all it's RSB traffic to the LV near U of R.

Perhaps this map is indicating that proposed siding? There would have to be an exit from the tunnel punched out somewhere... right? I'm not sure- an interesting discovery! So if all this RSB trackage is listed on NYC maps, would it also be in NYC ETT's of the period?

-otto-

No, this map was drawn from actual trackage in place. The siding shows as a short stub, not anything long. It's possible it was put in during construction of the building, and left in for a while in case it was needed. Maybe you could ask one of the winos - I mean derelicts - I mean homeless - OK, "abode-ally challenged" whether there are still traces of it down there, LOL.

As far as I know, or have seen on maps, the Erie tracks never extended north of Court st.
they didnt extend into the space now occupied the war memorial.
that area was the Kimball Tobacco company,
and this 1935 map says "city hall annex" and library.
the city used the tobacco building as offices and city library until it was torn down in 1951.

(why is the Erie station gone already by 1935?
didnt it last longer than that?)

http://www.rochester.lib.ny.us:2001/bin ... m00508.sid



A view of the partially demolished tobacco works of William S. Kimball and Company, looking southwest across the Broad Street Bridge. The statue of Mercury, which crowns the smokestack, was designed by Kimball's brother-in-law, J. Guernsey Mitchell. The factory was built c. 1880 and taken over in 1905 by collar manufacturers Cluett, Peabody and Company. George Eastman acquired the building in 1924, leasing it to the city for use as the City Hall Annex and the Central Library. It was demolished in 1951.
Notes Slide from a photoprint dated 1951. Source of original is Rochester Public Library Local History Division
http://www.rochester.lib.ny.us/rochimag ... 000074.jpg





Scot

Slightly off-topic: I have a CAD drawing dating from the 1990s by LaBella Associates, it's a plan view of the Subway tunnel from Exchange Street to Court Street... two interesting notes:

1) The plan clearly shows a trackway leaving the south wall of the tunnel at Exchange Street and curving southeast... pointed right at the War Memorial. There is no indication that this branch tunnel goes any farther than that. I think this was the as-built proposed connection for the Erie... which later could have been used for War Memorial deliveries. Anyone been in the basement of the War Memorial lately?

2) The plan also shows provision for (I believe) the ramp that was supposed to lead from Exchange Street into the Subway. This was supposed to allow streetcars to operate into the Subway. Early photographs show this ramp existing, later it appears to have been removed from the surface.

3) Where the Subway curves south under Rundel Library, you can see four trackways curving south. There is also clear provision for four trackways to continue due east (along the present day alignment of Broad Street Extension). A story from the 1928 Electric Railway Journal outlines a plan by the City to extend the Subway and Broad Street eastward towards Chestnut... and eventually to a new ramp that would connect to the end of Park Avenue, allowing the Dewey-Park streetcars to run through the Subway and avoid the congestion of downtown (the cars from Dewey already ran into the Subway, this was the Kodak Park connection... the connection to Park was never built...).

-otto-

scottychaos wrote:http://www.rochester.lib.ny.us:2001/bin ... m00508.sid

How the heck do you search or browse around on these maps? I can go to the home page - but all of the links are dead.

I unsuccessfully tried to quote Scotty Chaos. He asked when the Erie station was razed. Answer: 1947

But the Erie freight house remained through the 1970s, am I right? I read that the Inner Loop and approach to the Troup-Howell Bridge was built over and through the "attic" roof of the freight house?

-otto-