What Are "NIMBY's"???

I'm not sure which forum would be appropriate for asking this kind of question, but since this (SEPTA) forum is pretty much the only one I log onto, I figure I'd ask here. Please let me know what forum to go to for similar questions in the future.
Anyway, what are NIMBY's, or what does "NIMBY" stand for??? I often see that when I read discussions about new rail/transit lines or extension of existing lines, real or "fantasy". I know different abbreviations and initials are used for certain words and phrases in Internet forums and chats, and I have no idea what many of them stand for. I know on railroad/transit forums, "ROW" stands for "Right Of Way". Thanks for any help.

"Not In My Back[Y]ard"

People who don't want things built near them for fear of noise, pollution, crime, &c., even if such fears are unfounded (as they often are).

Cf. "BANANAs" = "Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone", the corollary for people who don't want things built even in others' backyards.

-asg

Amusing is pretty much right - but it's important to know the key word for NIMBYs -


IGNORANCE


------

NIMBYs feel rapid transit or commuter trains will destroy the fiber of their neighborhood by bringing gangsters, hobos, and other miscreants to their neighborhood once trains are operated to their neighborhood. Rather than being fact-based, these feelings are basd on 40 year old stereotypes and usually have litttle touch to reality.

With Septa, politics and apathy have killed many a rail route (i.e. West Chester, Newtown, Bethlehem etc.), but Nimby's are the ones that will
keep them dead.

This is geographically OT, but here's a neato NIMBY story:

In South Bend, my hometown, there's a former Michigan Central branch owned by NS, but not used for 15 years - it was originally a through route that became a branch under PC. The last customer was the coal power plant at Notre Dame. Now the University receives coal by truck at the ND coal yard, and a GE center cab shuttles the coal a mile to the powerplant by rail. A local entrepreneur wanted to reactivate the line, and was willing to pay with his own money to start this railroad. He had about four customers, and didn't ask for any gov't money. What did the city do? The mayor told people that we would be reactivating "Dangerous railroad crossings". Translation: "there's an election coming up and I need a cause!"

Many governments buy their local railroad when it goes under to keep businesses in town - witness WSOR, WNYP, CSS, etc... In fact, we've already got a state supported railroad in South Bend - the South Shore. It's not like people aren't aware that a railroad is a public good, we just have a mayor that BS'd a bunch a NIMBYs into believing a railroad is a dangerous social ill. Never mind the coal trucks continue to roll to ND over public highways, rather than private fixed steel guideways...

NIMBY = "I got here before you did and my gate's locked. No one else is welcome."

When the PRR main line was built well over a century ago, development followed. All those towns like Ardmore, St. Davids, Narberth, etc. flourished because of easy access to the rail line. As late as the 1970s you could actually trace an increase in property values the nearer a house was to a station.

When the Pacific Electric lines extended throughout LA in the 1920s, development again followed the tracks.

But a couple of years ago, when SEPTA proposed routing the part of the Route 100 extension behind the parking lot of the Valley Forge Towers apartments, people turned out in droves to protest the "noisy, smelly trains" that were going to run "right next to their bedroom windows". Several of tried to point out that the N-5 cars were small, electric, and very quiet, AND that there seemed to be no concerns about diesel trucks blasting by on 202 and 422, but to no avail. As soon as people heard the word "train" they immediately fixated on a coal drag with two Big Boys at each end.

Interestingly enough, metro Toronto requires infrastructure (roads, sewers, and rail lines) to be in place before development can occur in certain zones. The last time I was there the newspapers carried letters from people pleading for an extension to the GO commuter rail system so that new housing could be built.

You gotta love the people that buy next to a ROW that has been there for a century and then bitch when it's going to be used. Can't they see?

It's the same mindset that buys next to a farm and then complains about the smell.

nrkrupp wrote:You gotta love the people that buy next to a ROW that has been there for a century and then bitch when it's going to be used. Can't they see?

It's the same mindset that buys next to a farm and then complains about the smell.

This has nothing to do with trains, but here is a perfect example of this type of crap.

When I'm staying at the house in Palmyra,NJ, I sometimes hang at this place called the Park Tavern. There is a woman who bought a house across the street from the bar about 10 years ago. She is always giving the owner a hard time complaining about customers who are not doing anything but coming to and from the bar and minding their business coming in and out. Now that you can't smoke in bars in NJ, customers have to go out on the porch to smoke but they cannot take drinks outside which is enforced and of course they are talking, not loud or yelling,but talking peacefully and then she'll call the Palmyra Police and say events are going on there which are not true and of course they have to answer the call. Even the Police can't stand her.

The point is when she bought the house, she knew the bar was there which has been since 1932. So if she was so concerned why did she buy it in the first place? Those type of people just burn me up sometimes.

JeffK wrote:NIMBY = "I got here before you did and my gate's locked. No one else is welcome."

Not always true... Another case is NASJRB Willow Grove. That base has been there forever (since the '20's or '30's) You have all these houses being built in the area and the planes aren't flying when they move in. But when they are flying, the people referenced above complain about all the noise. The airbase was there... did you not see it?? Same thing with the trains I guess.

George

In my opinion, the label NIMBY is thrown around too much, oftentimes people with legitimate grievances get tarred as NIMBYs simply for objecting to a project, especially if there actual NIMBY groups protesting it as well.

Possibly, but most excuses are legitimate for at least the person complaining. NIMBY is by no means a scientific term, it mearly lumps people together who tend to think of their self interests over the "public good" regardless of the project. Some of these people in the past have done some good (ie. killling the Crosstown Expressway that would have obliverated South Street in Philly in the 70's), but a sad majority are only out to derail something that would have a much greater benefit for all than the detriment for a few (if any).. I'm sure each of us in our own way could be a NIMBY if the wrong issue came along at the wrong time..

CAVES == Citizens Against Virtually Everything.

e.g. environmentalists (yeah, they're MENTAL all right) against the second Abo Canyton track: http://www.abocanyon.com/

Hi All,

NIMBYs can create havoc with a project as well. When the Gold Line LRV system went into use in the Los Angeles to Pasadena areas, NIMBYs had a field day. In the area of South Pasadena, Marmion Way, the LRV runs right down the center of the street. So, there are RR crossings, flashing red lights and bells. And a big X sign for the LRV operators for them to ring their bell, or blow their air horns. In this case the residents on both sides of the street got together and protested. Signs went up, No Bells, No Whistles, keep under 20 mph, and several others. Some of the demands were met, and some weren't, but in point of fact they did get some changes. Question now is, how safe is that route at this juncture ??

It doesn't even have to mean backyard. The FAA wants to reorganize the airspace in the Northeast from PHL to NYC in order to better manage said airspace and reduce delays. This means there will be more planes flying over northern Delaware, especially Brandywine Hundred. However, the only time you notice the planes at all is when the ceiling is low...i.e. bad weather. It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen. The NIMBY's have a field day with this, saying that they need to route all planes over the Delaware River, which just cannot happen for a number of reasons. However, the NIMBY's never complain that they can fly just about anywhere non-stop from PHL, nor do they complain about the constant noise of I-95, or the CSX freight trains, barrelling through their neighborhoods, which I think would make more constant noise than the occasional plane.

NIMBYism is not a new phenominum. It took the early management of the P&W some effort to defeat the opposition of NIMBYs along the projected Norristown extension's route ( people who didn't want all of those "upstaters" traveling through the Main Line) before that line was built and was able to connect with the LVT. And this was in 1912. NIMBYism is also a part of the reason why the Baltimore Metro is only one line, at present. Anne Arundel County NIMBYs helped stall a projected line running south of Baltimore. While there are sometimes legitimate concerns with new rail line projects, they have to be built in SOMEBODY's backyard, if they're going to be built at all. -----To this NIMBYs will say-- "well then-- just don't build it".