Boston South Station Lower Level Loop

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cytotoxictcell
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Boston South Station Lower Level Loop

Post by cytotoxictcell » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:05 pm

HA
I know this topic is old, but how did the new haven railroad turn the locomotives around? like when they arrived at South Station how did they turn the locomotive around to head back south?

theseaandalifesaver
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South Station Question

Post by theseaandalifesaver » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:53 pm

Is it true that there is an unused lower level Commuter Rail platform at South Station?

The EGE
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Re: South Station Question

Post by The EGE » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:57 pm

There was a lower level loop, intended for commuter trains, but it was abandoned after it filled up with smoke because the New Haven had not electrified its commuter operations. Most of it is destroyed after the reconstruction recently, and there's no way to use it for expanded capacity.

theseaandalifesaver
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Re: South Station Question

Post by theseaandalifesaver » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:59 pm

Do any pictures exist?

The EGE
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Re: South Station Question

Post by The EGE » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:05 pm

I only know of one picture available on the internet, available on Wikipedia:

Image
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:South ... l_loop.jpg

3rdrail knows where all the old pictures are; there may be some available form the State Transportation Library or the Boston Public Library.

theseaandalifesaver
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Re: South Station Question

Post by theseaandalifesaver » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:13 am

Is that what it looks like present day? Is there still rail down there? Was it ever used?

TomNelligan
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Re: South Station Question

Post by TomNelligan » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:49 am

As Mr. Ege notes, the remnants of the lower level loop at South Station disappeared during the major reconstruction of the building in the 1980s. It was never used in regular service because of the smoke problem and the fact that the planned electrification of the New Haven's Boston commuter service never happened. The loop level space beneath South Station's waiting room was used for years as bowling alley, into the late 1960s at least, but the bowling alley had closed long before the rebuilding. The eastern portal of the tunnel that led to the loop lasted until the Big Dig construction; it was out near the Fort Point Channel bridge between the Shore Line and Old Colony tracks. The other portal had disappeared when the trackage that served the station's original baggage wing along Atlantic Avenue was removed about fifty years ago.

mtuandrew
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Re: Push Pull

Post by mtuandrew » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:14 am

cytotoxictcell wrote:HA
I know this topic is old, but how did the new haven railroad turn the locomotives around? like when they arrived at South Station how did they turn the locomotive around to head back south?
As far as I know, the New Haven had a balloon track in the vicinity of South Station with which to turn their locomotives.

amtrakowitz
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Re: Push Pull

Post by amtrakowitz » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:35 am

mtuandrew wrote:
cytotoxictcell wrote:HA
I know this topic is old, but how did the new haven railroad turn the locomotives around? like when they arrived at South Station how did they turn the locomotive around to head back south?
As far as I know, the New Haven had a balloon track in the vicinity of South Station with which to turn their locomotives.
Correct. It was on the station's lower level.

Image

The EGE
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Re: South Station Question

Post by The EGE » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:14 pm

Old maps of the loop platforms:

Loop platforms only

Whole station

Both from iRIDEtheT

Charliemta
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Re: South Station Question

Post by Charliemta » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:32 pm

It was really shortsighted to eliminate the underground loop in years past, given that the NEC is now electrified and could have used it, as could an electrified Fairmount line. When the postal building is torn down, maybe the loop can be restored, although the building at the corner of Dorchester Ave and Summer Street would probably also have to be torn down (no big loss there!)
"The penny candy store beyond the El
is where i first fell in love
with unreality.....
Outside the leaves were falling as they died.
A wind had blown away the sun."
----Lawrence Ferlinghetti

TomNelligan
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Re: South Station Question

Post by TomNelligan » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:49 am

By the time the approach tunnel on the B&A side of the station was removed circa 1960, it hadn't been used in about 60 years. Passenger service was a diminishing thing and at the time there was no prospect of either a revival or electrification, so no reasonable person would have foreseen a future use. When the remnants of the loop were removed in the mid-1980s, there wasn't enough of it left to even think of saving during the South Station reconstruction.
When the postal building is torn down, maybe the loop can be restored, although the building at the corner of Dorchester Ave and Summer Street would probably also have to be torn down (no big loss there!)
You'd also have to remove the very large I-90 tunnel that now occupies the space beneath the South Station approach tracks where the loop used to be. Some people might object to that.

jaymac
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Re: South Station Question

Post by jaymac » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:32 am

To add to all the other reasons the loop never would have been NEC-compatible are two more:
There is the lack of headroom. Except for the original AC, NH electrification was 3rd-rail or overhead 600v-DC. A look at the photo shows that while there was adequate clearance for trolley-voltage service, high-voltage catenary could not have been installed there because of flash-over.
The plans show tight-radius curves that would disallow high-level platforms, and, in all likelihood cause flange- and rail-wear problems, for Acelas and Amfleet equipment.
"Watching trains is better than smoking meth."
--Source, location, and time undisclosed.

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BostonUrbEx
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Re: South Station Question

Post by BostonUrbEx » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:16 pm

For the cost of a SS sub-loop we could probably be halfway to North Station on the N-S Link.

Charliemta
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Re: South Station Question

Post by Charliemta » Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:11 pm

You're right about that. It's probably not worth reestablishing at this point.

I'm thinking, though, that if the loop had been preserved, the bottom of it could have been excavated and lowered a few feet today to accomodate at least an electrified Fairmount line.
"The penny candy store beyond the El
is where i first fell in love
with unreality.....
Outside the leaves were falling as they died.
A wind had blown away the sun."
----Lawrence Ferlinghetti

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