Pacific Parlour Car retirement February 2018?

[Matt Johnson]

Of course, it would have been nice to have a replacement ready to go before they were retired! As I said in another forum, it's kind of like retiring the space shuttle and saying maybe we'll have a replacement ready to go in 6 years or so, which inevitably turned into 7 or 8 years and counting with delays mounting. In the meantime, sending sleeper passengers into the overcrowded Sightseer Lounge is sort of akin to hitching rides on the Russian Soyuz.

The new CAF Viewliners look nice, but if their rate of production is any indication, it's going to be a long time before any sort of Superliner III bilevel fleet replenishment occurs even if a contract is awarded tomorrow! I'm a firm believer that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[Greg Moore]

Perhaps, but when you don't have the money, you've got to make the touch choices.

The shuttle is a great example. The Russians are charging very high prices to fly our astronauts on Soyuz, but it's still cheaper than the shuttle, by car.

Superliner IIIs would be nice... but... right now, apparently they can't afford the costs of the Parlour Cars. So it's better to take what they can save and spend it elsewhere (who knows, perhaps a couple more Viewliners in the meantime

[Tadman]

Purely an educated guess, but it's probably a question of capital money versus operating money. They come from different places. If the PP's are really running up the maintenance bills, or thirsty for hard-to-find parts, it's probably best to drop them even though the replacement isn't so close.

I hate to see them go, but we did see this coming years ago.

[MACTRAXX]

Everyone:

Can the Pacific Parlour cars be sold and used in the private car market after Amtrak retires them?

I know that we have Forum members who are active with AAPRCO here...

Does anyone have the build dates by Budd for these former ATSF high level PP fleet cars?

This is an interesting subject and I look forward to learning more about these cars...

MACTRAXX

[Matt Johnson]

Does anyone have the build dates by Budd for these former ATSF high level PP fleet cars?

Not sure if they were part of the first or second Hi-Level order, but either 1956 or 1963 I believe. Either way, they're pretty old, though not much older than North Carolina's Piedmont rolling stock. I guess the state of North Carolina gets to call the shots with that fleet.

[Amtk30]

Does anyone have the build dates by Budd for these former ATSF high level PP fleet cars?

Looks like the PP former Hi-level Lounges were built for El Cap service Budd 1956.

Cite: David Randall's excellent reference,"From Zephyr to Amtrak"

Amtk30

[Gilbert B Norman]

Looks like the PP former Hi-level Lounges were built for El Cap service Budd 1956.

Concur;

The entire 1963 order was for Transition-Coaches

[Tadman]

The folks over at Canadian Railway Observiations have claimed the following:

"OF AN ERA! Due to Trump imposed Cut backs, an Amtrak internal communication report states that the AmtrakCoast Starlight Pacific Palour Cars will be permanently removed"

Regardless of your feelings about Trump, has anybody seen evidence that Trump has anything to do with this? Isn't the budget set the year prior, which would imply it was set under a prior administration? I'm not throwing shade at Obama as this was in a 5+ year fleet plan anyway due to obsolescence.

Long and short, I don't think either Trump or Obama had anything to do with this. The 1950's age had everything to do with this. Thoughts?

[Matt Johnson]

I think there's always the fear that when the GOP is in power there's likely to be a thinly veiled effort to rationalize the long distance network out of existence, but I don't think the PPC retirement by itself can be considered indicative of such. If it becomes part of a trend to hack away at amenities, maybe there's more reason for concern.

[Backshophoss]

Believe it's the age of the cars and lack of parts "forced" the retirement of the Pacific Parlors,think of then as the LAST Heritage cars that were
still useful enough to last this long. This will allow Beech Grove,Bear,and Sanford(Auto Train shop)to keep the current fleet up an running as best
they can,leaving the Exhibit train as only Heritage cars used in "part time" service,along with the Heritage cars used as part haulers between
all the shops. Amtrak does not have the $$$$ needed and by now the "institutional knowledge base" as they have retired/passed on.

The lack of parts is what's part of the Problem Corridor Capital faces in bring back the the El-Cap coaches,needing plenty of $$$$$ at the shop
to allow custom fab of parts(prototyping,then production).

[R36 Combine Coach]

Does anyone have the build dates by Budd for these former ATSF high level PP fleet cars?

Not sure if they were part of the first or second Hi-Level order, but either 1956 or 1963 I believe. Either way, they're pretty old, though not much older than North Carolina's Piedmont rolling stock. I guess the state of North Carolina gets to call the shots with that fleet.

NCDOT's fleet is mostly from the two very last Class I passenger coach orders: KCS 270-279 (Pullman, June/July 1965) and UP 5528-5542 (St. Louis Car, late 1964/early 1965). NCDOT also purchased a few more of the '65 series former UP cars from the above mentioned St. Louis order from Ringling Bros. (likely shells only before converted back to coaches).

I think there's always the fear that when the GOP is in power there's likely to be a thinly veiled effort to rationalize the long distance network out of existence, but I don't think the PPC retirement by itself can be considered indicative of such.

Sound like VIA in the Mulroney administration (1990 cuts, for instance).

[MBTA3247]

Can the Pacific Parlour cars be sold and used in the private car market after Amtrak retires them?

As a practical matter, I would say no. Their inability to work with the rest of the private car fleet would greatly limit their use unless the buyer also purchased a transition car (or two) from Corridor Capital. On top of that, they may not have much service life left in them anyway due to metal fatigue (the same thing that did in much of the Heritage diner fleet) Stranger things have happened, but the best we could probably hope for is for one of them to become a static display at a museum.

[Arborwayfan]

Or possibly for one or more of them to become premium seating on a scenic railroad someplace, if a proper dome isnt available. Someplace where getting from car to car doesnt matter and speeds and mileage are low. Maybe?

[Backshophoss]

Believe the only complete set of El-Cap cars calls the SLRG(aka IP) home,the Sky Lounge/Pacific Parlor might be added if IP can afford it.

[Matt Johnson]

All this talk of the Parlour Car inspired me to share some photos from my Amtrak travels over the last few years, including a few Pacific Parlour shots.