Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

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Greg Moore
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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by Greg Moore » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:41 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:probably Pete McLaughlin ?
Could have been. I honestly don't recall.
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TomNelligan
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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by TomNelligan » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:56 pm

scoostraw wrote:The New haven must have had a turntable near that freight house I'm guessing?
Yes, there was a roundhouse and a hand-operated ("Armstrong") turntable located near the south end of the NH yard. You can find a 1948 view of two brand-new NH RS-2s on the Pittsfield turntable in the second image at this link.

http://berkshirehills.route.tripod.com/ ... nbury.html

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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by scoostraw » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:03 am

DutchRailnut wrote:probably Pete McLaughlin ?
That's what I'm thinking. That it was Pete.

J.D. Lang
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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by J.D. Lang » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:15 am

Yes, there was a roundhouse and a hand-operated ("Armstrong") turntable located near the south end of the NH yard. You can find a 1948 view of two brand-new NH RS-2s on the Pittsfield turntable in the second image at this link.

http://berkshirehills.route.tripod.com/ ... nbury.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Great pictures. Thanks for the link Tom.

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scoostraw
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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by scoostraw » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:06 am

TomNelligan wrote:
scoostraw wrote:The New haven must have had a turntable near that freight house I'm guessing?
Yes, there was a roundhouse and a hand-operated ("Armstrong") turntable located near the south end of the NH yard. You can find a 1948 view of two brand-new NH RS-2s on the Pittsfield turntable in the second image at this link.

http://berkshirehills.route.tripod.com/ ... nbury.html
Thanks Tom.

Is there a track diagram anywhere of the Pittsfield yard that you are aware of?

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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by Ridgefielder » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:39 pm

TomNelligan wrote:
scoostraw wrote:Tom did the Berkshire Division ever connect to the B&A via a wye at Pittsfield?
No, the current Housatonic/CSX connection that runs northbound to eastbound is basically what's always been there, minus a few former yard tracks. NH passenger trains used it to run into Pittsfield Union Station (basically on the site of the current Amtrak station) up until 1960, at which point the NH switched its trains to a minimal facility in its freight house just south of the B&A. That lasted until the end of passenger service on 4/30/71.
Just to further elaborate- there was never a wye in Pittsfield. However in New Haven days there was a branch from Van Duesenville, on the Berkshire Division mainline, to a junction with the B&A in West Stockbridge. The connection there was westbound, and that was the primary interchange between the NH and the B&A for Berkshire Division freight headed to/from the West. The branch was abandoned at some point in the early 1960's as Berkshire Division freight business declined.

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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by scoostraw » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:58 pm

And no wye at the North Adams connection either I take it?

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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by scoostraw » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:05 pm

Ridgefielder wrote:
TomNelligan wrote:
scoostraw wrote:Tom did the Berkshire Division ever connect to the B&A via a wye at Pittsfield?
No, the current Housatonic/CSX connection that runs northbound to eastbound is basically what's always been there, minus a few former yard tracks. NH passenger trains used it to run into Pittsfield Union Station (basically on the site of the current Amtrak station) up until 1960, at which point the NH switched its trains to a minimal facility in its freight house just south of the B&A. That lasted until the end of passenger service on 4/30/71.
Just to further elaborate- there was never a wye in Pittsfield. However in New Haven days there was a branch from Van Duesenville, on the Berkshire Division mainline, to a junction with the B&A in West Stockbridge. The connection there was westbound, and that was the primary interchange between the NH and the B&A for Berkshire Division freight headed to/from the West. The branch was abandoned at some point in the early 1960's as Berkshire Division freight business declined.
Yeah I was thinking about that branch. It effectively created a wye connection of sorts.

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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by TomNelligan » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:25 pm

scoostraw wrote:Is there a track diagram anywhere of the Pittsfield yard that you are aware of?
The University of Connecticut library has an amazing on-line archive of New Haven RR valuation maps from 1915-1916 that show tracks and structures in detail. Here's the one that shows the Pittsfield yard that includes the roundhouse, the freight house that served as the NH/PC station from 1960 to 1971, and Pittsfield Union Station as it was when it was new.

https://archives.lib.uconn.edu/islandor ... A860073811

Greg Moore
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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by Greg Moore » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:35 pm

It does look like with some land acquisition and effort one COULD put in a wye east of Pittsfield proper here:

https://goo.gl/maps/LR6iw88mcWo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not developed and I'm guessing land would be cheap enough.
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ExCon90
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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by ExCon90 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:23 pm

If a creek runs through it, is it considered wetlands?

scoostraw
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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by scoostraw » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:55 pm

Greg Moore wrote:It does look like with some land acquisition and effort one COULD put in a wye east of Pittsfield proper here:

https://goo.gl/maps/LR6iw88mcWo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not developed and I'm guessing land would be cheap enough.
Is that the North Adams branch? That was my thinking as well.

Although one could get really radical and do something like just run the power around the train and flip the seat backs in the coaches.

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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by J.D. Lang » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:27 am

Greg Moore wrote:It does look like with some land acquisition and effort one COULD put in a wye east of Pittsfield proper here:

https://goo.gl/maps/LR6iw88mcWo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not developed and I'm guessing land would be cheap enough.
That's the old North Adams Junction yard. It would be tight or you'd have build a bridge over that small stream. Also you'd have to re configure CP 148.

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Ridgefielder
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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by Ridgefielder » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:54 am

scoostraw wrote:
Greg Moore wrote:It does look like with some land acquisition and effort one COULD put in a wye east of Pittsfield proper here:

https://goo.gl/maps/LR6iw88mcWo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not developed and I'm guessing land would be cheap enough.
Is that the North Adams branch? That was my thinking as well.

Although one could get really radical and do something like just run the power around the train and flip the seat backs in the coaches.
Power isn't a hood unit. You need to turn it. And that can't be done anywhere on the Pittsfield side of the mountains, since the NH's turntable and engine house have been gone since probably the mid-1970's. Unless they're going to deadhead all the way to Springfield (not happening) or down to Canaan, CT on the Housy (also not happening) the train is going to operate with power on both ends out of Rensellaer. Same as they did with the Vermonter when it was operating via Palmer and the CV.

Greg Moore
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Re: Pittsfield - New York City Service Study (via Albany)

Post by Greg Moore » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:39 pm

J.D. Lang wrote:
Greg Moore wrote:It does look like with some land acquisition and effort one COULD put in a wye east of Pittsfield proper here:

https://goo.gl/maps/LR6iw88mcWo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not developed and I'm guessing land would be cheap enough.
That's the old North Adams Junction yard. It would be tight or you'd have build a bridge over that small stream. Also you'd have to re configure CP 148.

J. Lang
Right, my thought is a bridge over the small stream.

Even if you make the wye tight enough to only turn an engine, it would help.
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