The Maine Central Railroad Mountain Division

Well, Noel Weaver, if you see the Mountain Division to be dead, then what do you, or anyone else think about the Calis branch and its future? Click on the link to the posts that already started in the Guilford Forum about the Calis branch. http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13636 (which I feel is in the wrong forum anyways). For myself, I don't see the Mountain Division to be dead, but find it to be almost impossible with a small chance of it happening. I do feel strongly for the saying "If you build it they will come". I think there is a chance for business up until Fryburg, ME for freight and since it's not far from the Operational track of the Conway Scenic. I could see some kind of rehab of the remaining track between Redstone and Fryburg. The scenery is there and with the freight service running to at least Fryburg, the only areas of inoperable track would be between Fryburg and the newly relocated track in Redstone and from Hazen to St. Johnsbury, VT. I'm sure the track would need some work from Faybans to Hazen, but it is already maintained by the State for the Conway Scenic and there one or two trips over that section of track a year. With the exception of track in the Notch, I would have to say the speed for any train is at least 30 to 40 mph. though the operating speed for the Conway Scenic is 15 mph. I've been on the Notch Train before where they were moving right along, a lot faster than 15mph. When we were on the part where the road was beside us, we were either passing, or going the same speed as the cars on the road. I was on the RRE trip (back in 97 and 98) and we were running late, holding up the Sunset train that leaves at 6pm. Almost half the people on the Notch train were going on the Sunset train, so the train was moving along pretty good. So the track that the Conway Scenic operates on may not need to be touched if let's say Amtrak was to come through.

b&m 1566 wrote:Click on the link to the posts that already started in the Guilford Forum about the Calis branch. http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13636 (which I feel is in the wrong forum anyways).

I posted that topic in the Guilford forum because the group wants to restore freight service -- and the only railroad they would be interchanging with would be Guilford, so I considered it a relevant Guilford topic from that perspective (not to mention the fact that Guilford still owns some small portions of the Calais Branch).

I also posted it in this forum, which is where most of the discussion has taken place.

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13635

b&m 1566 wrote:Well, Noel Weaver, if you see the Mountain Division to be dead, then what do you, or anyone else think about the Calis branch and its future? Click on the link to the posts that already started in the Guilford Forum about the Calis branch. http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13636 (which I feel is in the wrong forum anyways). For myself, I don't see the Mountain Division to be dead, but find it to be almost impossible with a small chance of it happening. I do feel strongly for the saying "If you build it they will come". I think there is a chance for business up until Fryburg, ME for freight and since it's not far from the Operational track of the Conway Scenic. I could see some kind of rehab of the remaining track between Redstone and Fryburg. The scenery is there and with the freight service running to at least Fryburg, the only areas of inoperable track would be between Fryburg and the newly relocated track in Redstone and from Hazen to St. Johnsbury, VT. I'm sure the track would need some work from Faybans to Hazen, but it is already maintained by the State for the Conway Scenic and there one or two trips over that section of track a year. With the exception of track in the Notch, I would have to say the speed for any train is at least 30 to 40 mph. though the operating speed for the Conway Scenic is 15 mph. I've been on the Notch Train before where they were moving right along, a lot faster than 15mph. When we were on the part where the road was beside us, we were either passing, or going the same speed as the cars on the road. I was on the RRE trip (back in 97 and 98) and we were running late, holding up the Sunset train that leaves at 6pm. Almost half the people on the Notch train were going on the Sunset train, so the train was moving along pretty good. So the track that the Conway Scenic operates on may not need to be touched if let's say Amtrak was to come through.

Well, if you take the time to check out the Boston & Maine and the Maine
Central forum, you will find many comments that I have put there about
the line to Calais.
You can put anything on here that you want to but whatever you put here
will not change my opinion about the two lines, that is that it is pretty much hopeless.
There was not very much local business on either line in question and they
were retained for a long time mostly for through or overhead traffic. The
through freight traffic was rerouted to different lines and there is no longer
any need for either line.
Noel Weaver

MEC407 I'm not saying it was a waste for putting it in the forum if that's what you think I was getting at, it was made more so because that forum can go a while with out any messages. And to Noel Weaver, I'm agreeing with everything you say, but like I have said before, I'm not one to cancel things out completely, anything can happen. I also was well aware that the Calis branch was posted on this one, I was giving you the link to what I thought of the Calis line because at the time when I had posted it, I was not aware of the one on this forum.

Getting back to the Mountain Division and Calais Line.

SLA out of Portland is good competition for a revitalized Mountain Division. They would connect with the Calais Branch via Guilford at S. Paris. But my understanding is that the SLA is reaching it's limits with the traffic it runs today. To add a couple of stack trains each day may mean that SLA needs to upgrade/lengthen some sidings, or add new sidings. Probably cheaper than rebuilding the Mountain Division.

But the overall State's goal is to attract and add industry/jobs in both New Hampshire and Maine. Using the existing rail infrastructure may not do that since new industry is not popping up along this route now.

Expand your infrastruture and industry will grow where it makes sense. I think that both the Mountain Division and Calais Line could add customers for fuel, wood products, cement and TOFC. Trailer terminals located along each line could attract some of the traffic from the little industries that are not close to the rails. I know that there is a cement customer in N. Conway who could take his loads off of the Conway Scenic (if they want to do it), or transload in Redstone ot Fryeburg. There are still fuel dealers in Whitefield.

I agree that these customers alone would not make the venture worthwhile, but add some overhead traffic and a stack train, now you can operate the line profitably. The former B&M/CP line along the Conn. River and up to Newport, VT started a few years ago with a couple of cars each way, each day. Now they haul 12-15 cars each way daily, and are still growing.

The Mountain Division is not totally out of service. About 20% was rebuilt in the past 25 years, and 40% of it is in regular operation. It just happens to be the middle part.

I think there is more hope than you think.

Engineer999

I know that there is a cement customer in N. Conway who could take his loads off of the Conway Scenic (if they want to do it), or transload in Redstone ot Fryeburg.

It is funny you say that because I have heard (from CSRR employees) that they would do local freight service in the area, if the option was there. We could be talking 20 to 30 years from now, but with gas prices raising it seems to me that it would make it more possible. Not to mention the fact that the state spent money on relocating the track in the Redstone area; something is up that we don't know yet. The state of NH is not one to spend money where money will be wasted; I mean it can barely fund its own schools, so to blow a few million dollars for nothing is out of the question. Something is up and they're not saying what. That reason alone is why I feel the Mountain Division, as well as the Conway Branch (and many other lines in the state) has a shot at seeing life again someday. I myself don't feel the state of NH is as negative toward the railroads as some people make it out to be. The state just doesn't have away to fund railroads and that has been put on the back burner for now till they can figure out a way to get better money for education which undoubtedly should come first. Now I’m not saying its been put on the back burner 100% for the RR because that could help bring in more money (jobs, more tourist) and in return help fund other needs in the state.

I think that the State of NH may have gotten some federal money for that project, and included with that, was the provision to keep that rail corridor open. I could be wrong. I know of no special, super secret reason for them doing it. I thought that it was very unusual for them to rebuild that section of track, and to such high standards. Once they announced that the bypass was going down the MEC ROW, I thought the Mtn Division was officially gone.

Maybe they are going to test Acela's up there.

Engineer999

Not to dampen the enthusiasm shown on this thread, but I heard last month that the Mt Division track from Westbrook to South Windham (owned by Guilford) has been torn up, and is now only ties and stacks of tie plates. If the line is officially abandoned, does that mean Guilford can sell its row and permanently sever the line? It should be kept as a possible commuter rail line. With all the new homes being built in the Standish, Sebago, and Steep Falls area, it would be cheaper to put in commuter rail than a new highway

Bob M

Not to dampen the enthusiasm shown on this thread, but I heard last month that the Mt Division track from Westbrook to South Windham (owned by Guilford) has been torn up, and is now only ties and stacks of tie plates. If the line is officially abandoned, does that mean Guilford can sell its row and permanently sever the line? It should be kept as a possible commuter rail line. With all the new homes being built in the Standish, Sebago, and Steep Falls area, it would be cheaper to put in commuter rail than a new highway

They may have removed the rail to get what money they could by scrapping the iron. That could be a reason for why they (if it has happened) removed the tracks. As for Guilford trying to destroy the line from future use, I would believe it to be impossible with out the state or federal people moving in to see why. Especially in Maine and not to mention but doesn't Guilford own the tracks at each end where the Mountain Division starts/ends (Don’t have to worry about other railroads compeating).

Did some line research 2 weeks ago for my new N scale layout.

Hope you enjoy.

http://www.portsmouthbranch.com/gallery ... p?album=52

*

Thanks!

I need to get the rest of the line done when I get a chance.

does any one have one that would be usefull for exploring the whole line?

i want to drive up to NH sometime and see the whole line.

Here is an 'el quicko I whipped up using the CSRR map and quick shots with my camera.

About 400K


http://www.portsmouthbranch.com/img/mtdivmap.jpg

I was looking through the 470 Club's old book "Meet the Maine Central" and they showed helper engines on the Mountain Division in the early 60s. Did they use helpers right up to the end of service in the 80s? I don't remember seeing them when I was around Attitash and Bartlett in the early 80s. Where were the helpers based?