The GE EP5/E40?

Er... did this thing even exist?

Alright, I know it did, but why is there absolutely no info about it on here? Anyone want to give me some on it?

P.S. I wrote the Wikipedia article with what little info I had, so that's not an option.

GE built the EP5 in 1955 for the New Haven RR. They were
4000hp,double ended 11000kv ac/25hz-650v dc dual mode (electric) locomotives.They were equipped with two pantographs for AC current and DC 3rd rail shoes (for operation into Grand Central Term.)
These units were also unique with the introduction of a rectifier
type (Ignitron?) AC to DC power conversion for traction.
After the Penn Central took over the New Haven, the EP5's were
renamed E40's and converted for freight service over the
old PRR lines and ran for several years under PC & Conrail until the
last were retired in 1978. All were scrapped.

Of note they were nicknamed "Jets" due to the loud noise generated
by the cooling blowers.

Amhogger:

Yes, they were ignitron. Somewhere here Bill West listed the tube types on all the PRR / NH equipment up to I think the Silverliner II or Metroliners. If he pops in here, he can supply lots of technical info that's very reliable - he's researched these things quite well and can cite references.

I'm not sure if they were 'substation strapped to a DC unit' like the Washboards and Pioneer IIIs, or tap changers like the E-33/44s, though those had some resistors in them too for acceleration. I'm pretty certain they were not phase angle - AFAIK, the first phase angle equipment was the Silverliner II (ok, ignoring the Westinghouse experimentals for the PRR, though those relied mostly on tap changers).

I suspect the Jets were geared and designed for punchy acceleration, rather than high speeds, and supposedly they didn't like running at a constant high speed. Being New haven units, they'd not likely see over 60-70, so they might have been geared lower than the PRR's passenger units.

I've heard they can sure pull a train. The jet noise was supposedly quite loud, and due to a small, high speed, cooling blower. They were supposedly very cramped units, and I believe every single one had a decent fire in it at one time.... I've heard the blowers were powered off the acceleration resistors, thus were variable speed, too. I wonder if anyone's got a sound recording of one somewhere?

(Or, heck, a schematic and internal layout would be nice too )

Your very last question hit me as I have often wondered the very same
thing. They were something else when starting out. I can well remember
back in the days when I was working a job out of New York at night that
laid over for a while in New Haven. At the time, we had a bunk room in
the station on the second floor, west end of the building facing the west
end of tracks 7 and 9. I can remember those things starting out with a
heavy 177, 179 or 187 and they were certainally noisy. I can also recall
being up in the old Penn Station in New York where you could hear all
sorts of noises and the acoustics were terrible at that. It was difficult at
best to hear train announcements but when a jet started out down below
at track level, it came through up in the concourse loud and clear.
At best, these engines were cramped and the steam generators were right
in the cabs which could make for a very unpleasant trip if one was in the
mood to gas and they often did just that.
Noel Weaver

Builder & Date: G.E. Co. Erie, PA. 1955

Current Collectors: 2 A.C. and 1 D.C. Pantographs, and 4 3rd. Rail Shoes

Curvature: 288 ft or 20 degree Curve

Air Brake Schedule: W.A.B. No. 24 RL for Double-End Operation

Compressor: 1-W.A.B. Type 3 CMDC Driven by G.E. Motor, 200 CFM

Air Reservoir Capacity: 75,000 cu in.

Trucks: 2 G.S.C. Corp. Cast Steel Equalized with 40" Rolled Steel Wheels and S.K.F. Roller Bearings and Inside Swing Hangers.

Wheels:40 in. dia., Solid Rolled Steel, AAR Contour, 2 1/2 in. Thick Rims

Clearence Motor Gear Case to Rail: 4 1/2 in.

Truck Brake: Clasp Brake G.E.

Sanders: New York Air Brake Type HS-98

Sand Supply: 20 cu ft

Traction Motors: Six G.E. Type 752-F D.C., Blown

Motor Connections: 3S2P, 2S3P - AC Zone, 2S3P, 6P - DC Zone

Main Transformer: Type FOA-25-4900-11000-2558-768/768 DDLRA

Propulsion Rectifiers: 12- Ignitron Type

Aux. Rectifiers: 4- Ignitron Type

Motor Gen. Set: 1- GMG-164A1

Equip. Blowers: 2- GY-44A

Resistor Blowers: 2- GY-44B

Main Reactors: 2, 1- Arc back current limit and 1- smoothing

Aux. Reactors: 4, 1- Arc-back current limit and 3- smoothing

Cab Heaters and Defrosters: 2 Each in Each Cab, Electric Heaters-8000 Watts

Speedometer: 1 Each Cab, Axle Gen. Type

Bell: Cast Steel with Air Operated Ringer

Horns: Hancock Air Chime, Air Operated

Train Heating Equipment: 2 Vapor Heating Corp. O.K.-4625 Steam Generators, Nominal Heating Capacity Each 3000 Lbs. per Hour,(another source says 5,000 lbs. per hour) with Remote Control

Fuel and Water: Fuel=400 Gals.-3,000 Lbs., Water=1800 Gals. 15,000 Lbs. in One Combined Tank

Battery: One Exide KX17D. 152 Ampere Hour. 32 Cell, Lead-Acid

AC Pantographs: 2- W Type S-546

DC Pantograph: 1- W Type US-119

Couplers: 2 A.A.R. Type H "Tite Lock"

Draft Gear: 2 Waugh Type WMD-6

Cab Signal: G.R.S. Co. Four Indication Code Type

Headlights: 2 14" Pyle-Nat. with 250 Watt. Prefocused Bulb

Water Cooler: One Mink-Dayton #26

Windows: Non Shattering Glass, Drop and Pivot Window at Sides of Operating Positions

Fire Extinguisher: 2 Safety First Co. 20# Dry Powder Type

Window Wipers: 4 Air Push Jumbo

Weight: 350,500 Lbs., 175,250 Lbs. on Each Truck

Max. Height: 14'-9" over D.C. Pantograph Locked Down

Height Over Cab Roof: 12 ft 8-3/8 In.

Height Over AC Trolley Locked Down: 14 ft 8-1/4 in.

Length: 68'-0" Over Pulling Faces of Couplers, 44'-0" Between Bolsters

Total Wheel Base: 52 ft 6 in.

Rigid Wheel Base: 15 ft 0 in.

Width Over Cab Sheets: 9 ft 11-1/8 in.

Width: 10'-5-5/8" Over Handholds

Tractive Effort at 25% Adh.: 87,000 Lb

Continuous Tractive Effort Rating: 34,000 lb

Speed at Continuous Rating: 44 MPH

Power at Continuous Rating: 4000 HP

Maximum Speed: 90 MPH

Track Gage: 56 1/2 Inch

amtrakhogger wrote:Of note they were nicknamed "Jets" due to the loud noise generated by the cooling blowers.

The GE E2Bs that demonstrated on the NH, VGN, GN and ended up on the PRR were called "Screamers" for the same reason

There was a nice article on the EP5 in Railway Age, April 11, 1955 beginning on page 47.

Form the specs:
Trucks: 2 G.S.C. Corp. Cast Steel Equalized with 40" Rolled Steel Wheels and S.K.F. Roller Bearings and Inside Swing Hangers.

Three-motor trucks: these were CC units, like the E33 and E44. But the trucks are very different. GE's freight electrics from late 1950s and early 1960s have trucks similar to those used on the U25C (and early U28C) diesels, with notably unequal axle spacing. The trucks on the EP-5 (we can get away with calling them E40 on the GE forum, but here on the New Haven forum people get stroppy about it!), though drop-equalizer trucks like those on the freight electris, have equal (or very nearly equal) axle spacing. Visually they resemble the trucks used on the Alco "World" export diesel cab unit (Dl-500), some GE export diesels, and various British diesels (Clas 47, Class 50...).

I suspect there is an interesting story to the history of locomotive power trucks-- who influenced who, and suchlike art-history questions-- but I don't know any of it.

---

The magazine put out by the New Haven Historical and Technical Society has had at least one EP-5 article, and "Extra 2200 South" a LONG time ago (issue number probably in the 60s or 70s???) had an article with drawings.

I'm reading the transformer type number, and if I read it right - 4.9Mva? Seems a bit small for a 4,000 HP continuous unit (It didn't have HEP, I guess?). Was there a one hour rating (on AC) listed anywhere?

What was the reliability of the dual-mode 600v DC operation as compared to the FL9? It seems that if these units were in any shape to operate at all, they could have been given to NJT or Amtrak in 1971 and used instead of the ancient box cabs on the Hudson or ancient GG1's on the Corridor. I've only seen one pic of an EP5/E40 south of NYP, and that's hauling around a local in eastern PA somewhere. It seems at the time PC demoted the EP5, they also removed one pantograph.

As was noted, these units were inclined to have fires. I read somewhere
that it was one fire too many in GCT that caused these units to get banished to the PRR side (mostly Morrisville Pa.- Sayreville NJ freights.)

From what I've heard, every single one suffered a fire of some sort at one point.

I suspect the other reason they were quickly dumped: Ignitrons, and a nonstandard type, too I think. And, IIRC, a LOT of them. I'm not sure how long a tube would last in service. Oh yeah, water cooled, which had some REAL tight water requirements, as the water contacted the propulsion circuits directly.

The E-33s didn't last that long at CR either I don't think, and I've heard most, if not all, E-44s were upped to the solid state -a specs. That left the Silverliners, Arrow IIs, and M-2s as the only ignitron stuff out there, and those were MUs, where the technology fared a bit better, I think.

Also, the units were designed to pull trains on the New Haven Line, which wasn't remarkably fast, but demanded high acceleration. They were geared for 90 - Not gonna cut it on the NEC below NY pulling passengers.

And a small fleet. My guess is Amtrak saw the E60 coming and decided not to bother, and Conrail was'nt sure what they needed, but a headache of a motor wasn't it.