Steam Locomotives Found Off Jersey Shore

I believe that it is. But it would be overkill for this application. Most of the work would involve placement of slings and/or building a platform and dry-dock like supports around each locomotive. Then a conventional barge mounted crane would have plenty of ooomph to lift them. It really is a doable project if - the big if - they are structually sound and will not break apart or seriously deform under the lifting stress. After 150 years underwater, that is a significant concern. Even 'modern' wrecks with 50 or fewer years are significantly weakened by the action of currents and salt water. Perhaps more survey dives have been done since the TV presentation was produced and more info will be forthcoming. If not, when the winter storm period is over, the additional investigation will likely be done.

DonJon Marine's chesapeake 1000 is a floating derrick used for marine salvage. The 1000 stands for it's rating in tons. I watched it lift out the sections of the old Rt 9 bridge that were over the river when they re-furbished the bridge. It lifted whole sections from pier to pier.

They weighed approx 500 tons. the contractor told us that the 'test' lift to maintain the 1000 ton rating was to lift 1700 tons...do the math, that's 3.400.000 lbs!

I'm sure it would lift the locos if there is enough left to sling them up. The corrosion from being in the salt water may prevent that.

Back on the theories of the locomotives' sinking, the one postulated on the show had the engines on a seagoing sailing vessel (they said a schooner, but their graphic showed a brigantine or a small barque), and rolled or were rolled off the side in a storm.

Crucial problem here: Wouldn't rolling 70 tons off the side of a round-bottomed or narrow flat-bottomed vessel result in capsizing, especially in a storm? The massive weight-shift would simply roll the ship over before the engines left the deck. It's possible that, with the engines aboard, the ship's freeboard was so little that the hull was partly submerged when it rolled, maintaining only a small pitch when losing the engines. But, even then, the damage caused to the timbers by two locomotives toppling over the side would have to have been catastrophic.

I may be wrong, but I just don't see the ship theory. My guess--completely uneducated--a wide, deep-draft barge that would have had enough countering weight and buoyancy to remain upright during the weight-shift.

Research could answer a lot of this. There has to be a record of what kinds of craft transported locomotives in that era.

Ken W2KB wrote:I had met John Chatterton, the host of the show, back around 1991 when he lead some other wreck divers and discovered an previously unknown German WWII U-boat offshore NJ. He and others had some of the artifacts on display at a dive shop in Staten Island where one of the other divers was a manager. Was neat to see and handle the china etc. form the sub! Took John and a couple other divers and several historians working with him about 10 or 11 years of intensive research, travel to museums and Germany, and a number of very deep (230 feet!) dives to determine the true identity of the U-boat. Hopefully the locomotive history will be quicker <g>.

Ken,

Have you seen the new book about John Chatterton & Richie Koehler and their efforts on the U=b0at? I think it is called Shadow Divers, came out late spring/early summer. I picked it up in the Library recently, it was a fascinating read.

Yes, I've read it. It did bring back memories. I knew John Yurga best, since he ran the dive shop when I took the certification class around 1990. After certification, the shop ran a dive boat class (one lecture and then one boat dive.) The boat chartered was the Seeker, with Nagle, Chatterton and Yurga on the boat for the dive on a shallow (around 70 feet) wreck. That was before the U-boat was found.

I was lookign at the History Channel DVD website and I can across a DVD that had something with the Jersey Shore to where they had all kinds of things in the Atlantic Ocean just off the shore. Sunken U boats, a US Navy Platform and a couple of locomotives! That's right, there are one maybe two locomotives underwater jsut off the Jersey Shore. Anyone know something about this? Were the locomotives on a ship that was sunken by a German U Boat or even durign a bad storm?

This old program and discussed to death if you use search function you can probably find the info your looking for in old discussions about the locomotives.
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... ght=sunken

4 steam locomotives that I know of, all brand new.
The 2 largest American made 2-2-2 Planets from the early 1850s. They may have fallen off the boat near Belmar, N.J..
2 Mikados on the wreck of the Arundo, sunk by a U-boat off Sandy Hook, N.J. in early 1942. A Coastguardsman on Sandy Hook got a photo of them when they passed his post just before the end. The tenders are on the opposite end of the ship from the engines.

Plenty more beyond diveable depths.

I know this is an old thread, but has there been any effort to raise these locos? Anyone have any updates?

The locomotives are legally "arrested" and owned by the NJ Museum or Transportation / Pine Creek RR of Allaire.

The NJ Historical Divers Association has been researching these two 1850s locos trying to determine who built them, where they came from, and where they were going. Raising them is the eventual goal, that will cost LOTS of money, and they'll need to be kept "wet" until the salts and chemicals from 150+ years of sea water is leached out of the metal. Not simple by any means.

Check the website www.njmt.org and click on "The Twins" for latest info.

pierrerabbit wrote:I know this is an old thread, but has there been any effort to raise these locos? Anyone have any updates?

Here's a dive site discussing the Arundo. To retrieve these, after 67 years in 90 feet of salt water, would not be economic.

http://www.aquaexplorers.com/shipwreck_arundo.htm



As to the other 1850's era locos, that is more of a possibility. They are smaller and thus easier to raise, but I haven't researched the status.

Metal experts have to determine if the boilers will withstand being lifted, or if they'll collapse. The frames and wheels would hold up. Items such as the bells and whistles and tallow cups and fender trim have been brought up and preserved.

The cabs and tenders (wood) are long gone, as are the smokeboxes and stacks. A lot of disassembly will need to be done, they can't come up in one piece.

Being related there are also about 300+ 1964 R33/36 World's Fair IRT subway cars off the Jersey Shore as reefs. These cars were built by the St. Louis Car Company for the New York World's Fair. Another 800 or so NYC Subway cars are just off Cape May, as part of Delaware's reef program.

And the hull of CRRNJ ferry Cranford and most of CRRNJ ferry Elizabeth nee Lakewood are NJ artificial reefs.

This is the engine that was in the Tay bridge disaster in 1879. It was about nine years old at the time. It was at the bottom of the Firth of Tay for two months, was raised, and then ran another thirty-nine years.