SOS...need info on snow trains to Old Forge in 1939

Hi, gang!
New to this site, seeking info for novel I'm writing. I have my heroine on a train from Baltimore to GCT, then to Old Forge via a snow train. I know the snow train left GCT at midnight and arrived at Old Forge around 6am. I'd like to know how long a train from Baltimore would take to get to NYC in time for them to catch the snow train.
Also, anyone have any ideas about how they might get to the Thousand Islands? Were there trains that ran in the winter there, or will they just have to ski there?
Thanks in advance for any help y'all can offer.

Warmly, KMN

Well, having spent some time upstate at Camp Drum compliments of the US Army, I can address the geography question. Old Forge ("Thendara" on the railroad) and Thousand Islands are nowhere near each other; and back in the days when there was passenger service on the routes involved --- which would have been up to about 1964 or thereabouts --- one would take a completely different route to get to one vis-a-vis the other.

The closest RR location to Thousand Islands was probably Watertown, or some station near there. This was on the St. Lawrence Division (Syracuse-Massena route), reached via a connection from Syracuse.

Old Forge/Thendara is on the Adirondack Division (Lake Placid Route), reached via a connection from Utica.

I am the fellow who spoke to you on this.

Since you have a heroine from Baltimore, she should ride the Baltimore & Ohio from its namesake city to Jersey City. Train #28, Royal Blue, in competition with Pennsylvania RR's Congressional. Both left Washington same time 4pm. Royal Blue left Baltimore about 4:40, probably arrived Jersey City 7:55 or so. BUT... B & O had extensive connecting motor coach (distinctive almost Buckminster Fuller type creations in this era) to a number of locations in NY City (and Brooklyn). I think the stop - B & O called them stations - closed to Grand Central was at the Chanin Building and the coach drove right into the building which had a super art deco ticketing-waiting area leased to the B & O. This gives plenty of time for heroine to tidy up and prepare for her trip to the slopes. The motor coaches loaded at trainside, Jersey City and were ferried on Jersey Central RR boats to Liberty St. in New York and then on the New York City streets.

B & O was the civilized mode from Baltimore to New York or anywhere it went for that matter.

Wow, you guys are GREAT! Thanks so much!

KMN

For my novel research, I'd love to see a late 30-early 40s Pullman first-hand. Anyone know of a restored one or a RR museum in upstate NY area? I live in Rochester, NY.
Thanks again, guys!

KMN

BOY ARE YOU IN LUCK!

There is a railroad museum in your backyard with a Pennsylvania Railroad Pullman Sleeper-Lounge from 1939 in its collection. While not restored to original condition, all of the details are certainly there. Half of the car is sleeping compartments, half is a lounge, and there is a small galley in the middle. The sleeping compartments are set up in their various configurations: double room at night, single room at night, and single room during the day. The lounge is 99% complete and original as well as the kitchen/galley.

Please contact the Rochester & Genesee Valley Railroad Museum to arrange a visit. Even though the visitor's season has ended, I'm sure someone can meet you down there and let you tour the car some weekend (volunteers are usually there most weekends). Please visit the web site http://www.rochnrhs.org/rgvrrm.html for more information.

-otto-

I can't believe it...right down to the YEAR??? Huzzah!!!

I placed the call just now and WOW, can't wait to see it. I'm thrilled!!!

Thanks so very much for your rapid response, Otto...you're the best!!!

KMN

Maybe someone can find you an older New York Central travel brochure to get into a railroad state of mind. I have a 1905 Adirondack Mountains which is blah on the outside but opens to desktop size. Reverse has a reasonably detailed map from Green Mtns. to Thousand Islands and several inset maps of prominent locales. Has trails and carriage roads. The flip side has list of lodges, etc. While a bit before the 1939 era, probably all that much didn't change. And the while very technical maps may be available in state archives, these are made for regular folk to use.
Also when trekking from Old Forge to Thousand Islands, consider snowshoes, too. They work great and you can almost run on them even after a few drinks! Snowshoes are easier to conceal than skis too.

I've called the museum to (hopefully) set up something this weekend...I'm so tickled about this!
Ed, your snowshoe idea is GREAT...I might see if I can work it in. I'm not sure I'm going to take them to 1,000 islands, since y'all educated me about the lines that diverge going hither and thither. Tell me, someone, if you can, were there trains that traveled from Thendara to 1,000 islands, or would they have to drive it (or fly it!)?

Thanks again for all your help, fellows!

Gratefully, KMN

Most of the rail lines in the area are oriented north-south except in the areas of the larger towns.
There was a New York & Ottawa which at one time reached from Tupper Lake (I think) up to right near Massena, across the St. Lawrence through Kingston, Ont to Ottawa. The Tupper Lake-Helena section had already been abandoned by 1939 although the right-of-way was probably intact because it wasn't that much earlier. The NY & O was a part of the NYC family and there are web pages for it. Maybe that can be the pathway to the St. Lawrence.

Instead of flying, how about a steam tractor from a logging camp. These were like small locomotives that ran on the ground with a tractor drive at one end and skis on the other. They pulled carts or wagons with harvested timber to a sawmill or rail siding (or river for a log drive). They also doubled as public transportation down to the dance hall on Saturday night or to the nearest town with a saloon or bank (saloon first, bank if anything remained) on payday. While logging might have pretty much been finished in the Adirondacks, this is a novel and maybe a tractor or two was still around to ferry skiers to the slopes, to town and so on. The skis were removed during bare ground season.

These tractors did not need a paved road to get around.

There is a society (maybe more than one) that has a web page that maybe you can start looking for. There are some restored ones around. They were probably in use into 1940s or later in Maine, Wisconsin, Minnesota, probably parts of Canada.

What a funny idea!! I love it! Ed, you're a gem. I'll look into that right away. I just found out that there's a railroad library RIGHT in my neighborhood...wow, it's a whole new world out there!!

Warmly, Karen

I'm all set up with a tour of the Pullman this Saturday!! Hooray! This is what I truly love about groups like yours--the information is so cheerfully and nicely shared. Thanks again, and I will keep the group updated, if you like, about the fate of my book!

Warmly, Karen from Rochester

In answer to the question of going from Old Forge to the Thousand Islands, in 1939, you could take the Adirondack Division back to Remsen (later called "Snow Junction") then take the St Lawrence Division to Clayton (right on the river).

The Thousand Islands were "discovered" by the New York Central's advertising genius George H. Daniels.

Some background on the rail lines north of Utica and Syracuse is contained in:
http://www.rosshorwood.com/RailSiteLink ... rence.html

There is a lot of information on the Thousand Islands in:
http://www.rosshorwood.com/RailSiteLink ... Lines.html
...Ken

My hat's off to you guys...you really know your stuff. I've printed off everything and am keeping a file that's getting fatter daily. My visit to the RR museum was VERY fruitful...the Pullman was in pretty bad shape, but it was there and I only wish I had time to scrub it out myself.
Many thanks, KMN

Old Forge was at the end of a two mile branch off of the New York Central's Adirondack Division. The Old Forge Branch connected with the main line at Thendara. According to Mike Kudish's Railroads of the Adirondacks - A History, (1996), the last train into Old Forge ran on July 11, 1932. But this may not be an obstacle for you. There was still passenger service on the Adirondack Division in 1939 but you'd have to get off at Thendara and get to Old Forge on your own - 2 mi.. east.
I have several older NYC timetables but none show trains going directly into Old Forge from points south, e.g, Grand Central. So, even when the 2 mi. branch was running, passengers apparently got off at Thendara and changed to another train for the 2 mile run into Old Forge. I suppose there may have been special ski trains that would go directly into Old Forge and such specials would not appear in timetables. If such specials were still running in 1939, they could only get you as far as Thendara. Area skiing is indeed in Old Forge and the ski slope is named Macauley Mountain. It is still in operation today and I believe was in business with the same name in 1939. I know several old timers in the Old Forge area and will ask around to see how skiiers got to Macauley Mountain in the late thirties. Wouldn't surprise me if the ski center or the NYC had buses from Thendara. I Hope this helps.

Frank Carey I summer near mile post 69, Adirondack Division