Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2014

Otto,
Over on the S&NC yahoo groups site, someone mention that it didn't make sense to truck the stone. Mr Ellis responded, he agreed, it didn't make sense that you couldn't get favorable rates to transport the stone by rail to Long Island or the Port of Albany for that matter. I guess the big boys don't want to be bothered.
Don

Otto Vondrak wrote:I bet there's a real good reason this stuff is being trucked out and not interchanged to Canadian Pacific.

-otto-

... well... up until Iowa Pacific came along the tracks were no longer connected to the national network which would have made shipping things south of Hadley a bit difficult. There's two great big piles of gravel sitting along the line that are already dug out of the ground. It's going to be cheaper to get onto a railroad car than stuff that needs to be dug out of the ground. The other two products that need to be shipped out are tourists, which Iowa Pacific is already shipping, and abrasives. I don't know if the abrasives have enough volume to be shipped by rail if there isn't anything else using the line.

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I'm a bit late to the party as I don't regularly check this thread. But in catching up I note "Mem160" asked about friction bearings. One of the responses included the following:

Technically all bearings are friction bearings .... Roller and plain. Plain bearings are often referred to as friction bearings informally but it is technically not correct.

Correct that all bearings involve some degree of friction. However regarding the statement that it is not technically correct to use the term "friction bearing", I would add the words "in an engineering or textbook context." In a railroad context, it IS appropriate and correct because that is the term the industry uses and has used for at least 60 years. For example, the Field Manual for the AAR Interchange Rules, Rule 90, notes "Friction (plain) journal bearings" as prohibited in interchange. That's the 1996 version as it was the first one I put my hands on but it may well read the same today.

Furthermore, get out your November 1954 issue of TRAINS magazine (you DO have a copy, right? ). On page 4 is an ad from Timken, promoting roller bearings of course. Included is the phrase "...and cars with friction bearings".

So while the term may be scientifically inappropriate, when used in a railroad context I would submit it is entirely appropriate.

Also,

The issue with failure of a plain bearing is that hardly any railroad, and probably no Class 1's have the tools or materials to repair one when something happens hence the general ban in standard AAR interchange.

To "tools and material" I would suggest we add "knowledge". Sadly few carmen today would have any idea what they were looking at if they encountered one, just as few of today's engineers would have a clue if confronted with the backhead of a steam locomotive. Times change!

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SNC 4970 ready to travel from Saratoga for Boyertown PA. To join the Colebrookdale RR.

FYI, I saw no sign of traffic north of North Creek last weekend when I went downstate.

what engine is 4970? (i did a google search but found nothing) and why is it going to PA? Does Iowa Pacific operate that line as well?

Uh, it's a heavyweight passenger car, pictures are at the link.

FWIW, the link only works if you have a Facebook account. I don't, so I couldn't view the link.

Thanks for the info. I could not view the link as I dont have facebook.

Can we please see a blurb or a photo for us non face book users? its frustrating to see something posted and not be able to view it.

SNC 4970 was painted in this ersatz "Adirondack Railway" paint job to run behind the Leviathan when it ran on SNClast summer. Just a standard heavyweight coach. Photo by Don Williams.

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I rode the S&NC this weekend and thought I'd give an update.

All the sidings south of North Creek are clear of any cars or equipment.

At Corinth there were no indications that any work has been done on the Palmer Branch.

It doesn't appear the track work scheduled for this spring has been started. There were only may be a half dozen stacks of new ties along the ROW between Riverside and North Creek.

The railroad will be shipping out this week the two IPH E8s 515 and 518 to Chicago. They will be handed off to CP Rail at Saratoga. One of the units will leave Chicago for the Streamliners at Spencer and the other will be used on excursion service in the Chicago area. S&NC had determined that the E8s are hard on the track because of the twisty nature of the line. They want to use power with a B-B wheel arrangement. I don't know what that means for the fate of the two DL&W painted E8s 807 and 808 stored on the old garnet shed siding north of the station. S&NC does have on the property two BL2s 52 and 56 (in primer grey), ALCO S-1 #5, ALCOS-2 #821, and the GE B39-8 8524. The ALCO RS-36 is still on the property, but I believe S&NC doesn't own that unit.

The stone shipments from the mine at Tahawus will start in May. The stone will be shipped to Corinth where it will be loaded on to trucks to be shipped to where they will load the barges for the final leg of the journey to Long Island. Apparently CP Rail doesn't want to be bothered with transporting the stone by rail to the Port of Albany. CP has the yards in Albany tied up with oil trains and couldn't promise delivery times. S&NC looked in to using the Battenkill RR and loading the stone on barges at Thompson, but that didn't work out. They are probably going to load the trucks at the station siding in Corinth. They looked into loading at the old paper mill, but decided against it after checking the road crossings and bridges.

It was good to get out of the house and enjoy the nice weather.
Don

^Thanks, Don, for the update!

The May 2014 issue of Trains magazine has a map of the S&NC.

griffs20soccer wrote:S&NC looked in to using the Battenkill RR and loading the stone on barges at Thompson, but that didn't work out.

That would still require handing off to Canadian Pacific... And since D&H no longer provides interchange to the BKRR at Eagle Bridge, that means CP would have to hand off the cars to Pan Am Southern for delivery to BKRR. Handling times and rate structure between four railroads probably played a factor in that decision.

-otto-

S&NC is pretty much at the mercy of CP rail since CP is their only interchange partner and it doesn't sound like they want to be bothered. I just wonder how CP's attitude about dealing with shortlines will effect S&NC ability to grow their freight business. Some of the customers mentioned earlier in this forum topic have yet to use S&NC. The one exception was Barton's mine and there last shipment was the summer of 2013. Does any one know if S&NC has any regulatory or other actions they could use to try and get CP to play ball?