Railway books on the New York state

I was reviewing the last updated list and found between what I own now and what I've purged, I've had all but 11 books.

I'm getting ready for another purge. There was a comment a ways back in this thread about trying to own them all. As someone who came close, when you finally get a chance to read some of the books you realize that sometimes there just isn't a lot there. Neat to learn that there was a RR line the 7 miles from Town A to Town B and it went out of business in 1924. But 36 pages on it? Not so much. This isn't to knock the author(s) of these books it's just the subject doesn't lend itself to a full-blown book. Probably a decent Wiki article would be best. Start, end, reorganization, roster, map, milepost chart, and some external links. Saves the $12.95 or $19.95 cover price or the $75 and $150 of the used price.

I found that once out of my favorite subjects (WNY or CNY or long gone RRs like the WS/LV/DLW/PRR or Interurban/electric freight or cabooses, for example), a book on a the city lines of the East Podunk trolley line wasn't the best book to have the in the collection.

Just some thoughts. For those interested in ultimately having all the books, I'd like to hear your reasons.

Charles

nydepot wrote:IFor those interested in ultimately having all the books, I'd like to hear your reasons.

You know of my NYS ROW database. I've bought books just to get the best information available on the route of the railroad, e.g. the Jerseyfield Railroad. Doesn't mean that I need to own them ALL, but it does mean that I would buy one in a New York Minute if I thought it had any better information than I already have.

I think some of these small books were either done long ago, or by people not internet savvy. Until about 10 years ago, creating a small book was perhaps the best way of recording this information, and the people who experienced much of this first hand are only getting older. As russ mentioned, despite being small, they sometimes contain the only information one can find on a rr .... I think of my copy of the "Butter & Cheese Express" (er something to that title) about the Ithaca & Auburn etc... quite fascinating, and short - dealing with an area were my ancestors grew up (grandfather's father would send product by rail on the line).

I think thats part of the key is interest ... one must filter ones interest level. For russ, that may mean most of the list, just to get an as-accurate info about a line. I try to limit my books based on area ... central/western ny.

I suppose as time goes on, more books will get written, covering some of the smaller books... but some info will be lost, only to be preserved in these small books - Ive got a book on street cars in Liverpool, NY (from long ago), which is probably the only source...

By today's standards, a lot of the paperback books we hold up as reference material now would not pass muster. A lot of these books were written by well-meaning folks who did their best with the tools they had - no internet, no access to vast research libraries via the net, no discussion groups, etc. But some of the books just aren't great or they are full of "anecdotal" information versus cold, hard facts. Sometimes, really obvious information is left out- most often because these books were penned in the 1960s when everyone buying the book already knew about the line in question (and may have even had first-hand experience). You didn't need to explain everything, you'd sound like a fool if you did ("Yeah, Bill, we know the trolley ran from Bumpkin to Bumpkin Siding... we all rode it together, remember?!"). And there's certain esoteric details we want to know about today that back then never came up. And the reproduction quality stinks- small grainy photos tend to be the norm in many a local history. A few timetables and tickets thrown in for reference are a neat detail.

Should they all be consigned to the trash heap? No. These books may not be the end-all, beat-all... but they can certainly provide a good foundation to your research. When I was 10, I first found a softcover book called "Westchester's Forgotten Railway" all about the New York, Westchester & Boston. It was first published in 1972, by an author who had access to people with first-hand accounts (the line was abandoned in 1937). Was the text detailed and complete? Not all the way, but boy, what a great start. And plenty of photos, too. What's more, my dad was able to fill in a few details- he was ten when the trains stopped running, but vividly remembered when Subway service began (he lived on the line in the Bronx). I didn't learn it all from that book... but it led me on a quest to gather more information. I never would have dreamed that 20 years later I would have published TWO books on the subject myself.

And perhaps in another 25 years, someone will look at my work and consider it "incomplete" and lacking in production quality by future modern standards. But maybe it will inspire someone else to continue on in their own research project.

-otto-

nydepot wrote:As someone who came close, when you finally get a chance to read some of the books you realize that sometimes there just isn't a lot there. Neat to learn that there was a RR line the 7 miles from Town A to Town B and it went out of business in 1924. But 36 pages on it? Not so much.

Man, maybe you're buying the wrong books! All kidding aside... I was researching some pretty far-gone ghost railroads, thinking I'd just publish a couple of paragraphs and a map and call it a day. The more I dug, the more dimensions I was able to uncover. My Podunk Central was 10 miles long, built and died, but I uncovered connections to other companies, newspaper accounts of boardroom fistfights, shady bankers from Philadelphia, and more. I'm sure if the Podunk Central was the main thrust, I could have researched some of the local archives for land records and other information to see why the line ended in a prominent resident's back yard... or how the shady banker got a director's seat on the New Haven...

Does every 6-mile failed trolley line need its own 128-page glossy hardcover volume? No. Can you still uncover new information about a line that gave up the ghost a generation ago? Well, the trail is getting colder every day, but it's still possible. It depends on how far you want to take the story, how much time you're willing to devote to research, and overall, what your goal in publishing is. Where's the "AHA!" moment? For us, it was uncovering additional information that put the story in a broader context. So these two bankers act in secret and buy up railroad stock. Then they turn over the company to the New Haven. That's a weird job for two bankers, don't you think? Later on, I'm reading about the Northern Pacific, and these two bankers' names come up again! Turns out, these guys were like hired guns, going around buying up properties for JP Morgan that he would then redistribute amongst his holdings. Puts my local story into some perspective now!

Back to the self-published pamphlet... the series of booklets that Sheldon King made in the 1950s about various trolley subjects are a valuable part of my reference library. I hope to meet him someday soon to have my copies autographed. Even though they are crude, they tipped me off to several trolley lines around the state I never knew existed.

In short... value is where you find it. Is my $50 hardcover any better than Sheldon's pulp paperbacks? Depends on what you're looking for and what you learn.

-otto-

I agree with what you are saying. Your trolley books are invaluable. And many of mine are too. For me, when it came to a book on an old RR in the Adirondacks (I don't want to get into titles here), while it was a good book, I originally purchased it because it was a NY railroad. After reading it I realized, I had no real interest in anything in that specific area and not in something gone that long. I don't mind old ( I have the Butter & Cheese book too and I have all my King books autographed). It just came down to the railroad.

I also agree with Otto in that sometimes that's all you get on a RR. I have all Gordon books. Not super books but that's all you get on the Albany & Southern, BL&R, B&H, etc.

While I think the Marion Carry RR is neat, for me the overview in a Kudish Adirondack book is a good fit for me. A full, complete book on the G&W, bring it on! Olean city trollies, not really. JW&N or Chatuauqua Traction - love it. I have the Fenton Hist. Soc. book on this subject but would love to see full complete tome.

Charles

The book list is quite overdue for an update, are there any new titles released since my last update, besides the ones already mentioned after my last entry?

As for striving to have all titles, with already an well overloaded storeage capacity (my interests go well beyond rr related books on the NY State) I have to carfully reconsider every new book purchase. For me this translated into no more Morning Sun Books and reconsider any purchases on book dealing with trolley lines solely.

As the the many booklets on smaller lesser known rr: to me they add since these booklets go beyond the cold facts and as such do have their merrit, although the quality of the writing leaves somtimes room for improvement. And label me old fasioned but I still prefer the read from paper as from a screen.

Regards

Gijs

A book not about NY RR's, rather a geographical area (Tug Hill), but which includes a chapter and pictures on the Glenfield and Western is The Other Side of the Hill by Harold Sampson. It's long out of print, however.

Most, if not all of the information in The Other Side of the Hill is contained in the later book specifically about the G&W.

Are published books still the way to record and preserve history...rail history in particular? And the answer has to be "yes" in spite of the internet. The internet is a great research tool but a "hard copy" archive maintained by acamadicians, scholarly and non scholarly historians, and librarians will always be a safe bet. The internet can point the way, tell us where the information is, but not supplant such archives. Wickopedia is a good example of why sole reliance on the internet is not a good thing: to much misinformation and inclomplete information, and the ability for it to be amended at will.

As for some of the smaller lines and the anecdotal histories...good and bad. Going back to 1943 when Joe Bromley wrote CLEAR THE TRACKS as an anecdotal remeberence of the Utica Branch of the DL&W is a bible by which historians can learn a lot, thus good. A recent book by a signal maintainer or trackman of some of the same line is not as complete nor as accurate and has added little if anything to knowledge of the line, thus bad. Authors of such material have to understand the importance of the smaller line to mainline railroading and to local and regional history and be able to convey such to the reader. To say the little train met the big train at Junction and took people and thing up the valley to Littletown means nothing to most people. These books are more self serving to the author and maybe local nostalgics than adding to information about the line. If, however, the line served the only diamond mine in the world or was known for the invention of the cow catcher on a locomotive, or something like that, then a book becomes superflous at best. Even the only broadside picture of the lines second hand locomotive would be a stretch for giving the book value.

Has *anybody* located a copy of "The Snowflaker?"

Otto

Try this:

http://www.railroadbookstore.com/railro ... _sr_1.html

This one came out on top when searching on The Snowflaker

Gijs

Otto Vondrak wrote:Has *anybody* located a copy of "The Snowflaker?"

It's in my "To-Read" pile. Looks interesting. Nice map of Rochester. Lots of wreck photos. Cool wreck where some NYC steam engines went off the tracks and into the Genesee at Charlotte. Had to bring a barge in from Toronto to clean that one up.

Maybe I'll read it this month.

Charles

This might require a different location, so I'll probably post it on the B&O Forum but a new book comes out this November from Indiana University Press, "Visionary Railroader : Jervis Langdon Jr. and the Transportation Revolution, by H. Roger Grant" IUP did , "The Men Who Loved Trains". I talked with Jervs many times at the Elmira Country Club in 1999. It was a great experiance. He had some of the toughest decisions to make with the B&O/C&O and then trustee of the PC. He was the closest living relative of Mark Twain and he hated to talk about MT. Bu this face would light right up when talking about the B&O.

Try this link: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookse ... gdon+Jr%2E

More info on the Book,

Visionary Railroader
Jervis Langdon Jr. and the Transportation Revolution

First book-length biography of the "doctor of sick railroads"
"Grant has developed an extremely well-researched and well-written account of Langdon's development, both as a person and as a railroader . . . the story of an important railroad man who has not been adequately covered in previous books. . . . A valuable addition to railroad history." —William D. Middleton, author of When the Steam Railroads Electrified
Visionary Railroader chronicles the life of a key figure in the history of rail travel in the United States. As president of the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad, Jervis Langdon Jr. had the opportunity to put progressive concepts into practice.

In 1964, Langdon took charge of the Rock Island, and by the time he left in 1970, he had spearheaded major improvements for this struggling carrier. The same year, he became lead trustee for the bankrupt Penn Central and three years later assumed the presidency. From his role in passing the Regional Rail Reorganization Act of 1973 to his work on creating the quasi-public Conrail, Visionary Railroader examines the impact of Langdon's active life with clear text, unique representations of media of the day, and select family photos.
H. Roger Grant, Kathryn and Calhoun Lemon Professor of History at Clemson University, is author of 24 books, most of them on railroad history. He has written company histories of the Chicago & North Western, the Chicago Great Western, the Erie Lackawanna, the Georgia & Florida, and the Wabash railroads. He lives in Central, South Carolina.
The B&O Railroad Museum established the Jervis Langdon Fund, and contributors underwrote H. Roger Grant's work on this book. The contributions came primarily from RABO (Retired Administrators of the B&O Railroad).

Table of Contents
Preface
Acknowledgments
1. The Making of a Railroader
2. Railroad Lawyer
3. B&O President
4. Running the Rock
5. Rerailing Penn Central
6. Still Railroading
Notes
Index

Sounds like a great book, but I think for this thread, we're interested in books that focus on New York State topics.

-otto-