PRR Line to Sea Girt

PRRTech / TOMSTV -

Really enjoying your contributions here !

" The first picture is of the RT-71 bridge,around 1964,as the tracks are gone. "

Didn't/doesn't take Mother Nature long to reclaim turf, eh ?


" The second picture is the same bridge,around 1957.As far as I
knew,there was a single rail line switched off of the NY&LB at Sea Girt,and continued through. "

It was definately a dual-track connection....at least originally up thru 1957. Look to the left of that Pennsy K-steamer. BUT, given the operation in that pic, that former west/southbound main may have been OOS in 1957.

Classic double semaphore signal tower in view under the bridge here as well. Curious if it too was 'live' circa 1957 ( appears it was ) and/or why Pennsy hadn't installed more updated signaling by then. The CNJ Coast Line had a 3-target, 3-color light signal mast governing northbound moves into the junction from Bay Head.

" My recollection was that there were four tracks at the grade crossing just north of SG tower. The two easternmost tracks were the main line, the two westernmost tracks were sidings that extended north past the Sea Girt station. "

Agree....there also was a classic black signal bridge on the north side of Sea Girt Ave./Washington Blvd. just south of the NY&LB Sea Girt station. The concrete footings remain in place in 2006 !

If you both haven't already done so, go over to the 'Central of New Jersey' thread here and, about halfway down the page, locate two topics entitled 'Sea Girt info needed' and 'Coast Line Signal Aspects' respectively. There's some additional apprapo info AND additional photos/links that will definately be of interest. I'm sure you both can offer additional info/insight to those subjects.

BTW, have many fond memories of childhood summers in/around Sea Girt/Spring Lake and Belmar. I'm 56 and these photos and verbal exchanges make my rail memories come alive again. These were special times !

I have to revise my description of the track arrangement at SG posted yesterday.... The two sidings west of the main line just north of SG tower ended at the westbound main before the Sea Girt branch left the westbound main. From the signal bridge (...I have a water color renderings of that bridge and SG tower, and the Broad Street Station done by local artist Ruth Vail...) south, it was siding 2 ending at a trailing point switch into siding 1; siding 1 ending at a trailing point switch into westbound main; crossover from eastbound main to westbound main, then facing point switch to the Sea Girt branch. I thought that siding 1 continued and turned into the branch...

I do not recall that the branch leaving the main was ever two tracks. The crossing at Broad Street was one track, but I wonder if there was a second track just past the crossing for the Broad Street station. The following link to a CNJ track map of the NY&LB shows the Sea Girt Branch leaving the main as one track and opening up to two tracks, but the CNJ diagram ends there; the branch is PRR. See: http://raildata.railfan.net/cnj/nylb_pg4.html The definitive PRR documentation web site http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/index.html
is missing a map of Farmindale, the next junction west on the Sea Girt Branch; and doesn't even mention Sea Girt!

Tri-State Tom wrote:

" The first picture is of the RT-71 bridge, around 1964, as the tracks are gone. "

Didn't/doesn't take Mother Nature long to reclaim turf, eh ?

...Mother Nature didn't do it, the New Jersey Department Of Transportation did it! In the fall of 1966, when I started at Manasquan High School on Broad Street just north of the track(s), the Broad Street crossing was gone. In 1968, we moved into my house which is no more than 250' from the ROW. The rails were definitely gone then but the highway bridge was still there. The DOT wanted to get rid of the bridge; Rt. 71 was/is a state highway, the lanes were narrow and the approaches were steep. They finally removed the bridge, demolished the approaches and Rt. 71 is now as it is today.

I don't remember the year it was demolished, but there was a spectacular fire one night that destroyed an auto body shop which was in the building between where Dunphey-Smith sheet metal and the current auto body shop still stand. Dunphey-Smith and the destroyed body shop were in a single building only separated by a fire wall (...which performed it's task). The bridge span and the north abutment and approach had been removed, leaving a clear view of the fire from the south approach and abutment which had yet to be demolished. We walked over and sat on the abutment and watched the fire completely destroy the building from that bridge. Don't know the year exactly, but it was probably 1969-1971.

Tri-State Tom wrote:

Classic double semaphore signal tower in view under the bridge here as well. Curious if it too was 'live' circa 1957 ( appears it was ) and/or why Pennsy hadn't installed more updated signaling by then. The CNJ Coast Line had a 3-target, 3-color light signal mast governing northbound moves into the junction from Bay Head.

My earliest recollection of signals on the NY&LB was the interlocking signals at SG and the Manasquan River Bridge, and you are correct that they were 3 target signals (3-3-2 or 3-2-2, I cannot remember). I think we even discussed them previously in the other forum threads you mentioned. I don't know when the NY&LB re-signalled to color light, but I do not believe they had semaphores as late as 1957; it was probably all color light pre or post WW-II. Could the semaphores be PRR? Possibly, but I doubt it, as the PRR was firmly into positon-light by the 30's and I know there was a position light signal on the west side of the bridge governing movements toward the NY&LB in the early 60's. Do you have a positive date on the photo?

As for the signal bridge governing westbound movements into SG, I mentioned earlier that I have a watercolor rendering of SG tower with the bridge in the background. The bridge spanned 4 tracks, 2 main and 2 siding. On the bridge, the eastbound track and the two side tracks each had a one target three light signal head, which was CNJ standard for a manual block signal at an interlocking. The westbound track had the same style 3 target signal as mentioned previously. Eastbound into SG on the main line were a mast mount 3 target interlocking signal on the eastbound track and I believe a dwarf signal on the westbound track.

Tri-State Tom wrote:

BTW, have many fond memories of childhood summers in/around Sea Girt/Spring Lake and Belmar. I'm 56 and these photos and verbal exchanges make my rail memories come alive again. These were special times !

Tom, you've got me beat by only two years, but our recollections of railroading in southern Monmouth County are just about identical, so I guess the memory is still good yet! I barely remember PRR steam here; I was probably only about 4 or 5 at the time. I remember my mom taking me and parking in the Bay head yard at night to watch the trains come in.

I have been fortunate; I was lucky to have a GG-1 cab ride when I was about 12, a Metroliner cab ride when I was 18 and an E-8 diesel cab ride when I was about 21. And in recent life as an electrical engineer, I've been involved with a bridge renovation on the NYMTA and some small projects with NJT and Amtrak.

We all should try and get together in the spring; maybe when the new station opens?

There is still a "relic" of the PRR-NY&LB junction just across from the former Sea Grit station, a cast iron post reading Trenton Division on one side and NY&LB RR on the other. I have pictures but don't know how to insert them in the posting, I could e-mail them to anyone who is interested.[/img]

NY&LB, sent me your pics, and I'll post them. [email protected]
Thanks

Here is some more stuff I found in my files.The picture of the 612 steam engine under the RT-71 bridge, came from The Unique New York & Long Branch book,page-165, also the caption sez...
and note that is the RT-71 bridge,not RT-35
I now see that there were 2 lines going under the RT-71 bridge,as in this picture of a special train in 1939.The train is in the same spot as was the 612 engine,and you can see the second track along side of it,I did not know that!
Also looking west from broad street,you can see the second track,how ever,I think that is a siding for the lumber company,just up the way from the broad street station
Hope this helps.

Here is a picture that NY&LB sent over OF A Penn/Central headed south out of Red Bank..
Thanks.

In the last picture that shows the passenger train with Penn Central #4328 at the lead just south of Red Bank Station, it appears that the junction and alignment for the CNJ southern Division (now southern Secondary) occurs at the corner of Chestnut St. instead of 1 block south (as is now). After looking at Google Earth, one can see that the current ROW alignment of the Southern Division does indeed "zig zag". Does anyone know why and when they altered this alignment? Obviously it is after the Penn Central merger.

...You will also notice to the left of the spur coming off the main several pipes paralleling the rail. At that time, this junction was controlled by RB interlocking tower, and like the former SG at Sea Girt, the track switches were mechanically operated from the tower "armstrong" type levers through linkages and the pipes you see in that picture to operate the switches.

I am not sure when RB was demolished or if any realignment was done at that time, but when the NY&LB was electrified from Matawan to Long Branch, a lot of work was done to the station and track in Red Bank; and at least one grade crossing was eliminated.

The former junction had two tracks coming off the main that eventually narrowed down to the single track that continued down past Lakewood. In the not too distant past there was still evidence of the former 2nd track at the grade crossing with Sycamore Avenue. I also believe there was once a very tight piece of track leading from the spur off to the NY&LB westbound (south), thus forming a very useful "wye".

There is no sign of that last leg of the wye today, and I believe that a single track off of the westbound main is all that remains. There is no double track connection any more; and while I am not sure, I do not believe that there is even a track crossover for trains eastbound from the branch to the eastbound track until north of the trestle over the river...

The Red Bank yard site is now home to NJT MOW forces, in particular the catenary/power department - there is a small building there that houses them. The buliding looks to be on the west leg of the wye, so no real chance of that going back in any time soon!!!

There is one track off of the Coast Line, track 1, just west of Chestnut St. However, immediately after the switch for the Southern, there is another Switch (interlocked and signaled) for Southern Yard as its now called (Red Bank yard is the one track off of Track 2 now), which is three tracks.

It looks as if when NJT rebuilt the whole complex, and added those retention ponds, they shifted the ROW to the south slightly, and met back up with the original ROW by a fairly tight S curve. Bergen Place I believe still has two tracks in the Xing as well, adn if not not mistaken, the one is still connected to live rail (but hasn't seen a train in ages). Patterson Ave Is only one track IIRC, while Sycamore Ave still has two tracks in the Xing, but the rails are cut just beyond the street.

Bank interlocking is extended on track 1 all the way to the switch for the Southern Sec (and Southern Yard) off of Track 1. If you stand at Chestnut St. You will see that the signal on track 2 (auto L166/L165 if im not mistaken) has a numberplate, while the one on track 1 does not. That shows its an interlocking/home signal. Bank extends east on track 1 to the Crossovers just west of Navesink River Road in Middletown, just over the bridge. The Home Signal going EAST on track 2 for bank is just east of the Shrewsbury Ave xing, on that tiny spit of land, between the xing and the start of the bridge.

PRRTechfan and Jtgshu,

Thank You boh for those great answers, though I am still curious about why the re-alignment was done. The final layout appears to be more complex than the original and by introducing curves into a freight line, they have also introduced additional wear & tear and maintenance. I wonder if it had to do with narrowing down the grade crossing at Chestnut. Originally there would have been 4 tracks for a car to cross with a little spit of land between the two sets of tracks. That would be an ugly place for a tractor trailer to get caught in between when the crossing gates came down.

I gather that the RB yard contained a number of more tracks prior to the retention pond so obviously the re-alignment was nothing more than routing trains through the yard itself so it probably didn't involve relaying track, just tearing up the old straight thru tracks.

If MOM finally gets up and running and at some point actually is routed (either as a primary or a secondary option) through Red Bank, would the current track configuration cause speed issues for the passenger trains? Or would it be a non issue because the close proximity to the Red Bank Station would require slow traveling anyway?

It would be slower through the yard area, but they could easily reconfigure the track so its not such a curve - might have to remove or change a few yard tracks, but it could easily be straightened out a bit...

My guess is NJT didn't need all the land that was originally there, so either they sold or probably are leasing to Red Bank the part were the tracks were, and that is now the daily parking lot for the train station,a dn the back part is a lot for NJT employees who work at Red bank.

I could easily see a connection put back in like was there before, with a diamond (sort of) across track 1 to connect with Track to, and only a swithc off of track 1, if MOM were to be built via Red bank.

Yes, Red Bank yard had significantly more tracks, and actually held freight cars at one time, but as freight service dwindled in the 80's, the yard was closed (as a freight facility) and those cars were sent up to Browns yard in Sayerville, and a crew out of there rides down the Coast line, usually once, sometimes twice weekly to work the Southern.

Here is a picture of the old Red Bank yard & tower..

just wanted to say this is a really interesting thread, thanks for all the cool pictures and info!

Hello all
I've read some of the questions pertaining to this line. Old PRR timetables will show trains going to these locations. I have PRR Tietables from 1936 1954 and 1959 for the New York Division which covers this area as well as Freehold, Englishtown etc. I can be reached through this forum via scoraggio1@optonline .net Steve Coraggio

Back to Sea Girt....

What about a siding near the junction into the adjacent Fort Monmouth property ?

Others here have referenced this elsewhere but we as yet haven't seen any old pics or extended info on it's use, layout, when it went OOS or was taken up/severed from the Coast Line ROW.