Private equipment collection at Colonie and Glenmont

The equipment in Colonie and Glenmont have become two separate stories. It is true that Danbury has taken ownership of the locomotives (only the locomotives) in Glenmont. I have talked to a few of their people and they as of yet do not have a plan to remove them. They are basically waiting for the situation to change (although that conversation was a few months ago).

The equipment in Colonie continues to sit, but wheels are turning behind the scenes. Last check, CP was still going through the legal process to take ownership of the pieces they viewed as abandoned.

traingeek8223 wrote:I have talked to a few of their people and they as of yet do not have a plan to remove them. They are basically waiting for the situation to change (although that conversation was a few months ago).

You will pardon me for my cynical attitude, but parties with skills vastly greater in the delicate arts of engineering and political negotiation have tried and failed to attempt to do the same over the last few years. I do wish DRM all of the success in the world and hope they do indeed manage to move the NYC electrics to safe harbor. It would do much to elevate my opinion of the organization in my eyes (and perhaps others).

-otto-

I tend to think the only way that stuff is getting out of there is if somebody comes up with a helicopter that has the capacity to lift them and fly them to a location where they could then be loaded to truck or flatcar.

A number of years ago the power-plant people wanted the equipment moved north towards the old bridge, and TT and I, along with a few other people, cleared the brush from the rails so the equipment could be moved (I remember that vividly: I wound-up covered with poison ivy for running the Steamtown Marathon the following week).

I would guess that, although the construction there changed the lay of the land, it would still be possible to pull the equipment back to the south to be loaded on trucks, no helicopter needed (also, helicopters probably do not have the capacity to lift that weight [e.g., the Boeing/Vertol CH-47 "Chinook" is only rated for 28,000 pounds of cargo]).

S

I'm guessing the DRM has no real plans on how they're getting those electrics out of there.

So now if some kid climbing on them falls and cracks his skull open, the DRM is now liable.

^Not necessarily. A good lawyer can prove the kid was trespassing and it was the kid's fault that he fell.

Let's not bring any negativity to this thread right now.

We know it's a bad situation. The railroad people are trying. It's the "train haters" who are making it very difficult.

You will pardon me for my cynical attitude, but parties with skills vastly greater in the delicate arts of engineering and political negotiation have tried and failed to attempt to do the same over the last few years. I do wish DRM all of the success in the world and hope they do indeed manage to move the NYC electrics to safe harbor. It would do much to elevate my opinion of the organization in my eyes (and perhaps others).

Gotta agree with you on this one Otto. I was a little disappointed with the conversation I had with them, but at least they are being realistic. Only time will tell what will happen in this situation. In the interim I would love to see some stabilization work take place. That would go a long way toward making sure there is still something left to preserve in the future. I would even be willing to offer assistance in the manual labor department.

I would guess that, although the construction there changed the lay of the land, it would still be possible to pull the equipment back to the south to be loaded on trucks

Yup. That would be logical. Except that the power plant has been very constant with their lack of an agreement to allow access back into the property. It would appear that this will never be an option as long as the current management is in charge of the plant. Even if that changes it is probably still a long shot.

It's going to ultimately take some out of the box thinking (not helicopters) to liberate these pieces from their resting spot. I've had some ideas rolling around in my head, but outside of that I have little else to bring to the table. It will take the right combination of people, situations and probably some lucky breaks to make something happen. Until then we can only hope the vandalism does not escalate.

I've been following this thread for a long time and I haven't seen these ideas proposed. Assumptions: 1) that the power plant only owns inside their fence, 2) that permission could be arranged with the landowner north of the power plant to move the cars out.
o Build a shoo-fly track connecting the storage track with the track connected to the active rails.
o or if there's room underneath the power lines, move the cars out using a crane.
o and if the soil won't support the weight of a crane, do it in the middle of winter when the ground is frozen.

Or repair the bridge and haul the cars out that way.

I've looked at the bridge, and while I'm no civil engineer, the damage seems repairable, if only for a hospital move. Even if the cars have to be winched across the bridge, it seems doable. A trackmobile could get the equipment within spitting distance of the bridge.

There have been many ideas proposed, much physical labor expended, many cubic feet of cash burned... From what I understand, and from what has been communicated to me, the problem is access to the property and the continued roadblocks being thrown up by the property owner to come to a mutually acceptable solution. Not being on the ground and not being directly involved, anything else I say here is purely a guess on my part.

-otto-

I've said this before - but access to the power plant property will, in all probability, never be granted. It's considered critical infrastructure - and in addition to corporate / security barriers, there's likely state/federal regulations that would prohibit anything that puts the reliability of the 'grid' at risk from occurring on their property. Especially for a request by some hobbyists.

That and even if access was granted - you gotta rebuild the track and connection to the spur off the CSX Albany Secondary. That and the switch on the CSX line into the plant appears to be gone. So your only realistic option is the bridge to the north over Normanskill Creek... which from what I've seen looking at pictures of it - I wouldn't want to walk over it - let alone try and pull 200,000 lb locomotives over it - half of the plate-girder span is gone and what's left doesn't appear to have much weight bearing capability. The trackage in and around the plant likely hasn't seen any moves since the 1980's (the plant was converted from coal to oil in 1970) - so who knows if anything could be moved over it safely in the first place? However, if one of those pieces of equipment causes the bridge to fail and a locomotive takes a bath - now you're dealing with the DEC, removal and clean-up costs, etc.

It's a shame. I saw some pictures of the electrics from the 1980's when they were restored (at least cosmetically) and looking great. The time to move them out of there was before they could be landlocked. 30 years later - and they're rusted junk. The only way those things are leaving is in pieces in a dumpster to a scrap metal dealer... but realistically, they'll continue to sit there for decades until the property is developed and the stuff scrapped. The topography between the nearest accessible road and the siding is too steep and would prohibit moving those things out on low-boys unless you brought in a lot of fill and gravel - and then there's the assumption that the local roads could support oversize/overweight loads, and further assuming the utility will allow this type construction to happen on their property under 115 kv power lines. There's also the barrier of the CSX line too. And don't even think for a second that CSX will allow this stuff to move an inch on their rails.

Besides, doing some research, the equipment is no longer on utility owned property. It was all pushed back beyond the utility's property line onto a piece of land owned by Beacon Harbor, LLC who has plans to develop the property into a waste-to-energy plant. You think they're gonna wait around for a museum to raise funds to get their stuff out of there or going to figure out who owns it? Again, abandoned property on private property. If the stuff is in the way, it's gone.

Rough estimate, assuming you can get the necessary clearances, permits, etc... you're looking at $750,000 - $1,000,000 in costs to move that stuff out of there intact. On top of that - you have to deal with property access issues, insurance costs, etc. Other than some eccentric railfan/history buff type coming along with very deep pockets - you're not gonna get the funding needed for this.

Call me negative, but this reality.

Some of them can move on their own wheels on live rail with repairs. Those that can't come apart and go on flatcars. So they don't have to go that far. The problem is just getting them out of where they are now. There's no easy or cheap option for this.

I was being somewhat faceitous earlier, I guess that was lost in translation.

lvrr325 wrote:Some of them can move on their own wheels on live rail with repairs. Those that can't come apart and go on flatcars. So they don't have to go that far. The problem is just getting them out of where they are now. There's no easy or cheap option for this.

I was being somewhat faceitous earlier, I guess that was lost in translation.

Problem is - you can't get any of that to live rail unless you truck it out of there. You can't truck it out of there unless you literally build a new road to the equipment - factoring in a steep grade from River Road to the equipment location. You're not gonna truck or crane anything unless the ground is stable. Anything with friction bearings will never be allowed to move an inch on live CSX rail. On the south end of that spur - you got a barbed wire fence with "Stay Out" signs, and beyond that a big pile of dirt. On the north end, you got a cobbled together bridge made of spare parts over the creek that won't be able to support the weight of any of the equipment. And who knows what kind of shape the tracks on that spur are in until you get to the industrial trackage further north. Google street view shows that trackage is relatively intact... just needs some work - but again, you got a bridge that lacks the structural support for such a heavy load.

Even under the most optimistic scenario, you're well into the 6-figure range approaching 7-figures. I would just assume that siding is the equipment's final resting place until it's removed in pieces or rusts into the ground.

If the bridge over Normanskill Creek was still intact - you have a shot at getting that stuff out of there.

nessman wrote:If the bridge over Normanskill Creek was still intact - you have a shot at getting that stuff out of there.

I've been to the bridge. It sounds like you haven't. Who are you going to believe -- me or your lying eyes?

RussNelson wrote:

nessman wrote:If the bridge over Normanskill Creek was still intact - you have a shot at getting that stuff out of there.

I've been to the bridge. It sounds like you haven't. Who are you going to believe -- me or your lying eyes?

I believe that is figure of speech les made..."If the bridge..."

He did mentioned that bridge lacks the structural support...

Could someone remind me again why the equipment stored in Glenmont is there? I don't recall the history behind it.