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Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

  by NJrailfan
 
After the final coal unit shuts down, Interchanges with the CMSL for car storage would be the only use for the line south of Folsom, unless some new industry developes over the next 4 years. Aside from car storage, the CMSL seems to have a hard time getting any regular service going. I hope I am wrong and they are able to eventually take over service on this line, but given the CMSL's history over the past 6 years I just can't see that happening.

What few updates there are on the Cape May Line can be found in this thread: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 27&t=94018.
  by michaelk
 
Eliphaz wrote:Mystic station units 8&9 in Boston are entirely fired by LNG, 1400 MW !

There is a lot of LNG in the world. Certainly, it's a market place with it's own complexities, but the pipelines in the northeast are knotty and jittery.
Building a 22 mile connector sounds like a way to get LNG into the market as well as an alternative supply option for the plant.
A plant capable of pulling from either could well become very valuable - The reliability issue is far more significant than energy price.

there was a show on discovery or natgeo the other day about Boston and LNG. Basically Boston used LNG because the gas pipelines that would server them start in the Texas or Oklahoma areas and then head up to the north east with everyone taking from the pipeline as it moves north- so Boston is basically the very end of the line. End result is that there isn't enough gas left for Boston to take during people periods. So that's why they regularly use LNG and have the LNG port right there. This may change as more and more of the marcelleus (sp?) shale gas of PA and surrounds gets stuffed into the pipelines.

Along the same lines with the marcelleus there will be even more 'regular' natural gas for any power plant in NJ- and hence it will be cheaper and cheaper to use natural gas .... any plans for any sort of new LNG importing into the NY/NJ/PA area have gone bye- bye. If anything LNG EXPORT terminals might become realistic. There's others who post here from the utility industry who would KNOW better- but that's my understanding.
  by Ken W2KB
 
Eliphaz wrote:Mystic station units 8&9 in Boston are entirely fired by LNG, 1400 MW !

There is a lot of LNG in the world. Certainly, it's a market place with it's own complexities, but the pipelines in the northeast are knotty and jittery.
Building a 22 mile connector sounds like a way to get LNG into the market as well as an alternative supply option for the plant.
A plant capable of pulling from either could well become very valuable - The reliability issue is far more significant than energy price.
The Mystic station is a unique situation and not comparable to the B. L. England station in question. Mystic is immediately adjacent to the large DOMAC LNG terminal that receives foreign LNG tankers. (By the tanker load and no need for domestic transportation in liquid or gaseous form the economics are substantially different.) The LNG is then vaporized by DOMAC and supplied to Mystic as well as to interstate pipelines and the local distribution company. DOMAC also markets LNG by the truckload to various local distribution companies ("LDC") in New England for peak shaving on the coldest days of the winter. LDCs use LNG directly only to shave peaks as the last source to be used because it is most expensive. The closest LNG terminal to B. L. England is at Cove Point, Maryland and injects vaporized gas into the interstate pipeline system similar to DOMAC. The next closest LNG terminal (other than DOMAC) is Elba Island, Georgia and the rest are on the Gulf of Mexico, and one in Alaska. A lot of LNG is exported or under regulatory review for export from the US due to low cost fracing gas now available. There is some legitimate concern that within a few years exports of LNG and shifting of an estimated 20% of coal fired generation to gas will result in market forces pushing up the price from the extraordinary low levels of today.

Reliability of natural gas supply is not a matter of source, but rather of the firmness of the transportation contracts. Most generating stations use interruptible pipeline transportation service meaning on the very cold days (or when wells are shut in due to hurricanes), they don't get gas that instead goes to customers with firm transportation contracts, most of which in turn the LDC supplies for home and business heating load and other essential uses. Interruptible transportation and less firm storage are substantially less expensive than firm service which is why generators use it. The electric power industry ensures reliability of supply by maintaining a calculated amount of operating reserves when extreme weather is forecast in anticipation of less gas available for generation. The US Federal Energy Regulatory Commission ("FERC") very recently scheduled a series of technical conferences to discuss gas-electric coordination with industry stakeholders because of the growing dependence on natural gas for generation fuel. B. L. England will build (or interstate pipeline or LDC will build) the 22 mile pipeline to an interstate trunkline with sufficient capacity to serve the station. If LNG is purchased by B. L. England it will be served by displacement, i.e., the LNG injections into the interstate system are co-mingled with domestic supply. Note that New Jersey and the surrounding states are summer peaking for electric when pipeline capacity is never an issue. There is a winter peak on the coldest days for electric but it is much lower than the summer peak, generation and distribution is more efficient in cold weather, so less generation is needed when gas transportation is scarce.

Not only Conrail's Beasley's Point Secondary, but overall in the railroad industry a significant drop in coal transportation is expected to occur.
  by bluedash2
 
FWIW, the plant has enough coal on hand (quite a bit) to last them until they go to Natural gas. Pretty safe to say we've seen the last of the power plant trains unfortunately. Unless they have some leftover at the time of the changeover which would require a train to take it out. I'm sure they will use all they have left. At that point my friends, the former Ocean City branch will disappear (sadly) into the history books, leaving the former Cape May branch as the only surviving shore line (aside from Atlantic city).
  by glennk419
 
Not unexpectedly given the weather, the plant has been online for the past week. I've passed it several times in the last 10 days and while it's hard to tell what fuel they are burning, I'm assuming oil given the blue/gray hue of the smoke coming from the stack. A couple more heat waves and maybe we will still see a train or two.
  by ConrailRailfan
 
That's good I hope the line stays active.
  by blockline4180
 
ConrailRailfan wrote:That's good I hope the line stays active.

Well, regardless, it probably won't stay active east of Winslow after 2014 when it switches to NG.
  by ConrailRailfan
 
Maybe the CMSL could start a regular passenger service on the line.
  by glennk419
 
ConrailRailfan wrote:Maybe the CMSL could start a regular passenger service on the line.
Not to stray too far off topic but this discussion has been held numerous times. As much as many of us would love to see CMSL as an operator, any resumption of regular passenger service would be operated by NJT.
  by glennk419
 
Well, with the plant being online for the last couple weeks, and most likely this week and next based on weather forecasts, it looks like they've burned throught some of their coal. Reports from another group indicate that a NS 502 is headed this way, presumably tied down at Falls as I type this. Word also has it that CSAO has issued a rusty rail order which obviously indicates a move. In addition, CA-51 dropped some cars to the CMSL at Tuckahoe late last week (which may have caused the rusty rail order) so the rails are finally seeing SOME action.
  by ConrailRailfan
 
Hi, that's good to hear I also saw the post about 502, I think a train went past Winslow last Thursday and Friday ,and on Friday it went to Palermo.
  by glennk419
 
ConrailRailfan wrote:Hi, that's good to hear I also saw the post about 502, I think a train went past Winslow last Thursday and Friday ,and on Friday it went to Palermo.
I believe Friday's train only went as far ar Tuckahoe to drop off the storage cars. That trip may very well have prompted the rusty rail order depending on how the crossing apparatus behaved.
  by ConrailRailfan
 
I think there were two trains though, the one Thursday I thought went to Tuckahoe to drop off cars, and the Friday one went to Palermo.
  by bluedash2
 
CR ran an NS coal train of 90 cars early this morning. Had 3 GE's- 2 D9 wides and a standard cab 8741 trailing with 9252 in the OLS paint leading. They will be getting a couple more coal trains in the coming weeks. Stay tuned...
  by bluedash2
 
bluedash2 wrote:CR ran an NS coal train of 90 cars early this morning. Had 3 GE's- 2 D9 wides and a standard cab 8741 trailing with 9252 in the OLS paint leading. They will be getting a couple more coal trains in the coming weeks. Stay tuned...
....and before I forget, CA51 ran down again the other day (Tuseday) with 24 boxcars in tow all the way to the plant to help keep clearing the rust.
Last edited by bluedash2 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.