Possible Fare Hike Announced Today!

SM89 wrote:People can just use Charlie Tickets from the machines. Most riders already have cards now so there would be no new machines or employees that will need to handle cash. And like I said above, if you need a card you can get one from one of those 5 stations or from one of the many retail locations that stock them.

So if most riders already have cards, it would follow that the MBTA spends very little money in distributing new cards.

So whats the problem?

Seems like some of you are looking for solutions to a problem that doesnt exist, which is odd because the MBTA has so many real problems that must be fixed.

The issue is that there is no reason to reuse the card more than once, as a majority of passengers have discovered. As most responsible people already have them, the fee for the card is to prevent waste not create profit.

I still have to question how much the SmarTrip vending machines on the DC Metro (at all stations with parking lots, perhaps other) really cost. It's been a couple years since I last used one (since I've saved my ST card, since it's worth $5!), but I recall it being a pretty simple machine - no where near the complexity of the farecard vending machines.* Somehow I get the feeling that the $5 fee for the card could easily cover the cost of the vending machines and the cards. I wouldn't place them at every station, but at major connection and terminal stations and ones with high traffic volume. And the vendor network is already there, so that's not an added cost either.

I can't cite a reference, since I heard this at meetings over the years, but I have heard straight from staff in the AFC office at the MBTA that the cards do in fact cost on average about $1 per card, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on the order. If someone really wanted to know the details, the costs will be in the board records anytime they approve another order.

*Not necessarily relevant to this discussion, but if you want to use a confusing vending machine, just try one of the various different models of FVMs on the DC Metro. They kinda look the same, but all the different models (farecards only, SmartTrip, etc) all work a little bit differently. At least our machines use the same menus, etc. whether they're the credit card only or full service variety.)

Instead of subsidizng bank of america and wall street, we should be further subsidizing rail and mass transit.

What would conductors do if i bought like 100 12 rides (hypotheically) the day before a fare increase. Say a 12 ride zone is 75 and during the fare increase it is $90?

All commuter rail tickets have an expiration date 6 months after purchase - as long as you didn't try to sell them to other passengers at a profit to yourself (but at a discounted price off the new price from the T), I don't think there's any problem with that. You're certainly not breaking any laws, as far as I can tell.

cytotoxictcell wrote:What would conductors do if i bought like 100 12 rides (hypotheically) the day before a fare increase. Say a 12 ride zone is 75 and during the fare increase it is $90?

They expire in 180 days from the date of purchase so good luck using all of them.

Most conductors don't look at the expiration date. After the ticket expires, is it no longer valid period? Or can it be taken to NS/SS for an exchange for another one?

For a 12 ride for 180 days, you'd need to use it at least twice a month to use it up before it expires

sery2831 wrote:

boblothrope wrote: The T pays about $1 per CharlieCard.

That is a start. Source please? I don't want figures out here without facts. If this is a guess, please say so.

From the August 14, 2007 MBTA Board of Directors meeting agenda, http://www.mbta.com/about_the_mbta/publ ... /?id=12951

"12. Authorization for the execution of a Contract with Giesecke & Devrient America, Inc., of Dulles, Virginia, to supply approximately 5,000,000 contactless smart cards as part of the implementation of Automated Fare Collection, and execution of Option No. 1 for additional specialty CharlieCards, at a total cost not to exceed $4,212,410."

That comes to 84 cents per card.

Aside from the MBTA's obvious flawed decisions in how they spend $, is there a general feeling as to how much of a fare increase we'll see?

Also, do you feel they will continue w/ the lower fare for CharlieCard holders than CharlieTicket buyers, or will the fare scale be evened-out?

I hope the continue to offer lower prices for the cards.

Somewhat related, I don't get the people waving their Charlie Cards when boarding the rear doors at an above ground Green Line stop. It's a regular Charlie Card... there's no way for the driver to know that you have a monthly pass.

The Ride seems to consistently be in shambles as far as organization and execution goes. Maybe it's not that dire, but there always seems to be problems with bloat and waste here. Why does this have to operate under the MBTA? Can we please cut The Ride, all operating costs, and all debts associated from the MBTA? I don't care if you keep the logo on it, but keep that debt away. In fact, there was an article about it running over budget in the Metro today or yesterday. I wonder what % of the debt can be attributed to The Ride.

Major necessary policy changes:
The Ride
Mandated Big Dig projects
Insufficient funding

The Ride program is mandated by Federal Law part of the ADA. This costs the T a lot of money for sure, but there is not much that can be done. The T issues a pass for all those that use the service(eligible) that allows FREE use of the MBTA and the Commuter Rail up to Zone 5. This is to encourage them to use the T and not the door to door service. They do have to pay to use The Ride though.

Is it legally bound to be covered by the MBTA though, it cannot be it's own entity under the MassDOT umbrella?



Also, I attempted to adjust the fare system while hiking fares to what I believe is more reasonable, and under what would hopefully be a card-only/no-ticket system. See the attached chart/image below.

This is pretty big hike on buses though. Perhaps keep bus at 1.50 but the only month pass for local buses would require the ferry/bus/subway combo at $70.

There's also a restructuring of the ferry fares, where Inner Harbor is labeled Local. Quincy, Winthrop (out of system at this time), and Lynn would run on Zone 2 as Inner Ferries. Hingham, Hull, and Salem (out of system at this time) would run as Outter Ferries. This is determined with respect to commuter rail zones within the area.

There may be errors, please point them out. Also, there appears to be some sort of anomaly where every price for everything in this chart has risen... except for the monthly pass for Zone 5. I can't figure out what happened there.

A bus hike from $1.25 to $2.00 is obscene.

Likewise, why eliminate the monthly bus pass...?

Zone 1a should remain at base fare. Porter is Porter, regardless of mode of travel. How would it make sense to charge $2.00 for Riverside and $3.00 for Yawkey?

Seems like your system puts 90% of the burden on the poor (bus riders) while subsidizing the wealthier suburban commuter rail riders.


My proposal:

Leave fares the same. Lower day pass to $7. Lower zone 1 by 75 cents and zone 2 by 25 cents.

We had a sales tax increase to pay for mass transit. Last I checked, thats still being collected each and every day.