Changes in 6576 The North Penn Limited

As per this coming Monday's bulletin order:

(B) ELECTRIC TRACTION OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS (SET-01)
1. SET-01 Section 5.1 revised to include exceptions: ..........rev. 12/13/10
a. Train 6576 is permitted to operate in Revenue service with 7 cars.
b. Train 6576 may operate utilizing full power (P3) between north of the Phase Break and Dale.

zebrasepta wrote:Has SEPTA done something like this before?

Do you mean add a car to a busy train while they are shorting 2 to 4 trains a day? I don't agree with this change at this time. It had to be pushed by someone important on that train or had a ton of complaint come in.

They have added stops or added cars to trains mid- schedule in the past.

If so many people are backtracking from Temple to Market East in order to take 6576, that is a valid reason to stop at Temple ... Especially if they are Faculty/Staff and will continue that commuting pattern.

6576 has 7 cars tonight. Consist is 139-140, 303, 351-350, 302, 409.

The conductor just told my friend currently aboard the train that 6576 will be scheduled for only 6 cars every Friday from here forward, and for only 6 cars as warranted by traffic over the holiday season.

Ridership at Temple continues to grow at a healthy pace. Neither that nor the crowding alone may not have been enough to warrant the additional stop and additional car, but together they did.

Still don't know where the car came from, whether it was 578 or somewhere else. Maybe one of the walls can drop me a line with an answer.

I've been tracking ridership on 6576 and 578 as SEPTA tries to make adjustments to maximize seat availability: they're filling those seats pretty well, even with seven cars.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:I've been tracking ridership on 6576 and 578 as SEPTA tries to make adjustments to maximize seat availability: they're filling those seats pretty well, even with seven cars.

578 seems to be pretty empty once it comes to lansdale

zebrasepta wrote:578 seems to be pretty empty once it comes to lansdale

It's been pretty empty once it leaves Glenside. Rail Planning is looking at ways of using that equipment more effectively--there are several possible ways they could go.

This train is not staffed properly. The employee in the rear car very rarely checks tickets/passes. Appears he is far up seniority ladder and is coasting to retirement.

The balance of trainmen/women have to cover for the senior crew "member".

Ambler;Ambler!!!!

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

zebrasepta wrote:578 seems to be pretty empty once it comes to lansdale

It's been pretty empty once it leaves Glenside. Rail Planning is looking at ways of using that equipment more effectively--there are several possible ways they could go.

Yes have 6576 make less stops, not add stops and slow it down. They did this to force people on the 7car push pull trains on the West Trenton and Elwyn Lines where they took stops away from another train to get passengers into the 7th car.

Maybe skip Temple, Gwynedd and Pennbrook, take away the 7th car and let them ride the empty 578. 578 runs less than 10 minutes behind 6576 and the next Doylestown 17 minutes behind 578.

I stated this before and will stand by it. There are some important 1234 SEPTA employees on this train. Thats why it got the 7th car while trains were being shorted every day by one or two cars. The Temple stop was a "justification". 578 has plenty room for Temple riders and others. Are you telling me all the faculty and students that want to go to Doylestown are all finished class around 526pm?

South Jersey Budd wrote:[Yes have 6576 make less stops, not add stops and slow it down. They did this to force people on the 7 car push pull trains on the West Trenton and Elwyn Lines where they took stops away from another train to get passengers into the 7th car.

As I said, that is being talked about. SEPTA is waiting a little while to see how loads balance out before making any changes. To my eye, ridership on 578 looks to be up about 10% from week one of the new schedule, and there have been checkers out this week getting more precise figures. Customers don't always behave the way you expect them to, so it's to be expected that things won't be perfect on the first iteration.

I stated this before and will stand by it. There are some important 1234 SEPTA employees on this train. Thats why it got the 7th car while trains were being shorted every day by one or two cars. The Temple stop was a "justification".

Budd, I don't see any conspiracy here. 6576 is full with occasional standing loads even with seven cars. I've suggested dropping a stop or two from 6576 as well as a little targeted marketing to point out to the Fort Washington and Ambler customers that they can get out of the parking lot faster and with less hassle if they take 578 instead of 6576. But for the time being, seven cars is what it needs.

578 has plenty room for Temple riders and others. Are you telling me all the faculty and students that want to go to Doylestown are all finished class around 526pm?

There's lots more employees at Temple than just faculty and students. Ridership there continues to grow at healthy rates <plug>--we covered this in the DVARP newsletter: http://dvarp.org/member </plug>

I agree it's a VERY well performing train but to add a car when your shorting multiple trains per day doesn't make sense to me. Was there pressure to add it ? What line did they take it from ? We all know there were no extras although right now having 2 sets of V's has helped.

South Jersey Budd wrote:I agree it's a VERY well performing train but to add a car when your shorting multiple trains per day doesn't make sense to me. Was there pressure to add it ? What line did they take it from ? We all know there were no extras although right now having 2 sets of V's has helped.

I don't know the specifics on 6576, but the new 6448 (added last month) did not require any cars off other sets. There may be a car freed up off 578 as a result of adding 6448. And as far as I know, the only pressure regarding 6576 were the riders standing every day.

Take away the rail knowledge and railfan in you to take this into account, Joe Public will arrive at the station see a train that stops at their station and board it, this applies to commuters as well, it doesn't matter that a train even a few minutes later will also get them home, it is instinct to take the first one (especially with the well documented problems Septa has with equipment and infrastructure, not always their fault, but the newspapers only sees failures as blame and ratings), too many people have been burned by waiting for next train for it not to turn up, be late or also be short on cars. just another spin on why certain trains will remain heavy regardless what you do, sometimes you can't change habits unless you force change.

Limited-Clear wrote:Take away the rail knowledge and railfan in you to take this into account, Joe Public will arrive at the station see a train that stops at their station and board it, this applies to commuters as well, it doesn't matter that a train even a few minutes later will also get them home, it is instinct to take the first one (especially with the well documented problems Septa has with equipment and infrastructure, not always their fault, but the newspapers only sees failures as blame and ratings), too many people have been burned by waiting for next train for it not to turn up, be late or also be short on cars. just another spin on why certain trains will remain heavy regardless what you do, sometimes you can't change habits unless you force change.

I think you're contradicting yourself a little there, but yes, commuters are creatures of habit. But they also seek out little tactical advantages when they can, like boarding a particular car so they can be closest to the parking lot when they get off (it's a much bigger phenomenon on some other systems). We can try to use that as a means of encouraging people to pick a less crowded train, and I expect SEPTA will try several things if they find they need to in order to lighten the load on 6576.