Southern Tier - East of Binghamton

Matt,

I think an increase in NS trains on the Harrisburg to Binghamton (also to Albany) corridor is a given. Between the North/South Intermodal/Auto Business Potential and substantial increases in gas drilling related traffic, growth is almost gauranteed. Maybe even connections to the Tier at Binghamton from the South will occur as well with trains to and from Buffalo and maybe even NJ in the future (to relieve CSAO congestion).

CP and NS have alot of work planned for the Sunbury to Binghamton route including a new 10000' controlled siding, signals, basic infastructure (rail, ballast/surfacing, ties, etc.), signals and the list goes on. There is supposed to be alot of Money getting dumped into the D&H this year to expand capacity and increase train speeds both from NS and CP.

I don't believe that at this point in time, a sale of the Sunbury Sub is seeming very likely. CP tonnage on this route has been extraordinary lately with 70 + car trains being the norm. Especially the Binghamton to Allentown (New Jersey) and Binghamton to Enola Trains, along with VERY strong local/interchange business on the corridor. The Phialadelphia traffic is still lagging behind from what it was a few years ago, but a general upward trend has been occuring even with that.

I think this year will be a year of substantial change in the Northeast Railroad Scene and many parties will be quite Happy with the outcome including myself (living right along the CP Sunbury Sub)!

Speaking of the Sunbury Sub, if anyone is interested in following current/future happenings with the route you can check out/join the Sunbury Sub yahoo group at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cprsunburysub/

Jim Cerulli

I think the opening of Mechanicville will be beneficial for the entire Sunbury Sub as well as the entire (yes, the entire) Southern Tier Line.

When is Mechanicville slated to open? Are they still working on it during the winter?

JR

Looks like there is discussion going on here....

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 55&t=52975

conrailsharedassets wrote:Matt,

I think an increase in NS trains on the Harrisburg to Binghamton (also to Albany) corridor is a given. Between the North/South Intermodal/Auto Business Potential and substantial increases in gas drilling related traffic, growth is almost gauranteed. Maybe even connections to the Tier at Binghamton from the South will occur as well with trains to and from Buffalo and maybe even NJ in the future (to relieve CSAO congestion).

CP and NS have alot of work planned for the Sunbury to Binghamton route including a new 10000' controlled siding, signals, basic infastructure (rail, ballast/surfacing, ties, etc.), signals and the list goes on. There is supposed to be alot of Money getting dumped into the D&H this year to expand capacity and increase train speeds both from NS and CP.

I don't believe that at this point in time, a sale of the Sunbury Sub is seeming very likely. CP tonnage on this route has been extraordinary lately with 70 + car trains being the norm. Especially the Binghamton to Allentown (New Jersey) and Binghamton to Enola Trains, along with VERY strong local/interchange business on the corridor. The Phialadelphia traffic is still lagging behind from what it was a few years ago, but a general upward trend has been occuring even with that.

I think this year will be a year of substantial change in the Northeast Railroad Scene and many parties will be quite Happy with the outcome including myself (living right along the CP Sunbury Sub)!

Speaking of the Sunbury Sub, if anyone is interested in following current/future happenings with the route you can check out/join the Sunbury Sub yahoo group at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cprsunburysub/

Jim Cerulli

Thanks for the information Jim. I was just trying to squelch the rumor of the the Sunbury-Albany corridor being sold, which has popped up on a repeated basis (in various RR forums) since the CR split. Now, back to the Tier...

CP Rail's line from Sunbury to Albany lies across a good portion of the Marcellus Shale and is seeing a huge amount of traffic related to the exploration therein. I'd be very surprised if CP would choose now as the time to rid themselves of that segment of rail.

And yes, back to the tier...

Perhaps we should change the subject??? This is " Southern Tier-East of Binghamton ", not CP Sunbury Sub, Mechanicville Yard, Harrisburg Line!! East of Binghamton is on the Southern tier, not the D&H!!!

Except if you believe or accept the fact that NS is persuing an inland port strategy then traffic on the tier east of Binghampton will not happen until the terminals such as Mechanicville are in place.

Does anyone have any info why NS ended up deviating fom its initial operating plan for the east tier. Was it traffic levels? Was it the fact that they did not own or have control of the tracks between Suffern and Croxton or they under estimated the capacity of the Penn lines. The economic environment with the contraction that occurred with the internet meltdown followed by the 911. The final thought was that the initial operating plan was put forth more for politicl consumption than fact.

I suppose it's anyone's guess what really happened. I'm guessing that NS was not able to gather the traffic they were hoping for out of NJ. While they had made some strides into gaining a bit of port traffic, they were not able to increase the percentage of rail hauled containers by a significant amount. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that containers still needed to be trucked out of the port and over to Croxton, etc. I'm guessing if we were able to find CSX's operating plan post-Conrail, we'd probably be saying similar things.

I think NJT's ownership of the tracks east of Suffern had little to do with NS's use for the line. The amount of traffic that has been being moved was able to be fit on the Lehigh Line/Middle Division so it was cheaper to use only one line and lease out the other line for future use.

Hopefully we will have many items of conjecture clarified after the union meeting information is released.

JJR

we are all speculating here still. fact is no trains/crews as of march 1 and not looking likely for april 1. the late 2010-early 2011 deadline has come and gone and nothing has changed! sorry to be realistic. NS is running a business and the east end does not fit into the plans as of this writing March 2nd 2011. done

Going back to the NS/WNYP arrangement, if memory serves me correctly, didn't they immediately, or shortly thereafter, start qualifying crews over the WNYP? The tie in to the Eastern Tier is this: If, IF NS says this service is coming in their union meeting today, how long would it take to start having crews qualify over the CNYK from Bingo east to PJ?

JJR

northjerseybuff wrote:we are all speculating here still. fact is no trains/crews as of march 1 and not looking likely for april 1. the late 2010-early 2011 deadline has come and gone and nothing has changed! sorry to be realistic. NS is running a business and the east end does not fit into the plans as of this writing March 2nd 2011. done

Because there aren't any NS trains on the line at the moment, doesn't necessarily mean that the line isn't in their plans. You know this is "railroad time" which generally tends to take a lot longer than planned for any projects to come to fruition. I'd say late 2010-early 2011 means early 2011 at the earliest. I'd hardly call it a deadline. Technically, I guess, we could say these plans are already about 10-15 years behind schedule, so if it takes a few more months, that's really not that big of a deal to them.

Let's hear what K4 says about the Union meeting yesterday before jumping off any bridges. For the first time in the better part of a decade, there is reason to have more optimism for the line.

northjerseybuff wrote:we are all speculating here still. fact is no trains/crews as of march 1 and not looking likely for april 1. the late 2010-early 2011 deadline has come and gone and nothing has changed! sorry to be realistic. NS is running a business and the east end does not fit into the plans as of this writing March 2nd 2011. done

Why contiune the speculating with "not looking likely for april1" and "..not fit into the plans.." if you said that we are all speculating? Just wait for K4's next statement/comment..

To be honest, I think everyone should just take a few deep breaths and relax!! Why do I sometimes get the impression that some people's lives depend on whether or not there will be trains on the Eastern Leg of the Tier!!

If it happens, GREAT!!! If not, oh well...NS could care less what Southern Tier "foamers" think about all this!!!