N&W's "Orland Park Cannonball" - 1972

doepack wrote:
That's strange. I'm not a regular rider, but there have been those at this forum that have said the schedules are actually overly generous, particularly off-peak service that tends to run 3-5 minutes ahead. More minor delays in the evening due to freights perhaps?

It IS strange, although I think it's the off-peak/Saturday trains which find themselves running a few minutes early by the time they get to Orland. At those hours the south end of CUS isn't stuffed to the gills with BNSF traffic to get in the way, and then of course there's very little waiting in stations for large crowds of people to disembark. My email account is setup to recieve delay notifications on both the Rock and SWS and the number of notifications for the SWS (usually delays of less than 20 minutes) far outnumber any for the Rock by a 4:1 ratio.

doepack wrote: For the record, I like the idea too, I'm just wondering about the logistics of the proposed 75th St. connection, and how viable it is. That said, the increased transit options at the two innermost downtown terminals currently only benefit Rock, MED, or NICTD commuters; everybody else getting off any of the other nine routes at OTC or CUS has to either catch a bus, a cab, or hoof it a couple of blocks to CTA's Green or Blue lines, and I've always felt that discrepancy should have long since been addressed somehow. Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions...

Yeah, that connection at 75th hasn't really been explained by any documentation I've seen and it looks like it'll oblitherate a city park based on where it's going. And there's that new station on the Rock that's supposed to be going in right there at 75th, further complicating matters. I think it should be done the quick & dirty way: run the SWS like it currently is, but have it take the BNSF east at the junction just south of the 21st street drawbridge. Construct a north-south connection between the Rock mains and the BNSF at 16th street and bam, you're done. Also has the added benefit of being able to route all the HC trains straight into La Salle.

That's the CN line you're thinking of. Currently, that connection track is in sorry shape, and the two mains aren't much better. 10 mph from 21st St all the way up and through 16th St. And the CN would find some way to whine about it, even if they ever do get all their thru freight moved over to the J.

byte wrote:Yeah, that connection at 75th hasn't really been explained by any documentation I've seen and it looks like it'll oblitherate a city park based on where it's going. And there's that new station on the Rock that's supposed to be going in right there at 75th, further complicating matters. I think it should be done the quick & dirty way: run the SWS like it currently is, but have it take the BNSF east at the junction just south of the 21st street drawbridge. Construct a north-south connection between the Rock mains and the BNSF at 16th street and bam, you're done. Also has the added benefit of being able to route all the HC trains straight into La Salle.

I don't think there is a definite plan, or even a draft plan for the 75th Street connector, as the design and environmental processes have just started. I would imagine the park would not be touched, best bet is some houses would be purchased then demolished between 74th and 75th Streets to accomidate whatever they have planned. As for the Auburn Park station, that would actually be at 79th Street, far enough south to have little if any effect on the 75th Street plan. The 75th Street corridor plan would eliminate probably 90% of the delays that SWS trains encounter and would make SWS a two track main north of Ashburn.

Byte: Where is the problem area today on the SWS for slow running?
Can these be corrected by METRA if at all possible?

I remember back in the 70s and 80s the C&WI N/S was usually OK even though the run was by no means fast...
Was the 75th Street E/W trunk line slow due to track conditions or freight train interference at interlockings that cross this line at grade? I remember the train ran quicker between 75/Western and Landers/Wrightwood when it reached the N&W's own track...How much of the track from Ashburn on S has been worked on by METRA?

I also noticed that you moved to Oak Lawn-is it still the busiest SWS station? How far from the Rail do you live?
Can you walk there or if you drive how is the parking situation there? From my visiting days in SW Chicago having
the SWS line just over a block away at Wrightwood was a plus even remembering how the schedule was...definitely faster then taking a CTA L/Bus combination to the 78/Kedzie area...

Thoughts from MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote:Where is the problem area today on the SWS for slow running?
Can these be corrected by METRA if at all possible?

I can Answer this one, the most problem for the SWS is along the 74th St. area, in which it crosses the CSX Blue Island, Sub, and the BRC mainline, from the times that I use it It always be around the Belt Junction area, also to lesser extent also crossing the IHB at Chicago Ridge, and when I usually get on going towards Chicago train will sit just south of the Ridgeland Ave Crossing because of traffic on the IHB, and I had seen times in which the conductors had passengers to walk down the platform to board the train while they wait for the IHB to clear.

Even to a lesser extent at either NS CP 518, and at Amtrak's 21st St Junction.

I am still not in favor of moving the SWS to LaSalle St, mainly because of Amtrak Connection that I use to Milwaukee every month, but if it means that trains will be on time then I am for it, I can't say that for the other commuters that ride this line thou, and also seen from how this line went from one round trip every weekday to having 30 trains, and 6 Saturday trains is showing that ridership is there.

JT4: Thanks for that reply-I meant to mention "Everyone" as I normally would...
The 75th Street E/W corridor is the trouble spot for the SWS thanks to all those rail lines being crossed at grade...
I remember that this was Belt Railway of Chicago's property and from 75/Western E the freight train traffic was heavy...

I was reading also the F40 rebuilding section here and I was wondering if those F40s that were originally assigned to this service are still being used there?
I even remember that #112 and #113 were assigned and were named for two towns on this line...were they Oak Lawn and Chicago Ridge?
I know that others were assigned later in the 80s...was one named for Orland Park?
I believe METRA kept the given town names from the early RTA days on the F40s am I right?

MACTRAXX

Everyone: Back in May 1978 RAILFAN magazine did an overview by Jim Panza on the then-new RTA services-which evolved into METRA in the 80s as most here know.
The article is on pages 40-46 of that issue...

The N&W service was mentioned covering its status at that time and that new RTA F40s and bilevel cars were on the way...along with the added second train.
They mention the equipment used at that time-nine coaches and a beggage/generator car and that it was still traveling to Decatur for the weekends...
The 1978 status of all the commuter rail operations were covered along with the gradual implementation by the RTA of new equipment elsewhere...

The first order of 28 RTA F40s are mentioned along with the names assigned...I believe that they were used on the appropriate lines...
100-Ernest Marsh
101-City of Joliet
102-Village of Mokena
103-Village of New Lenox
104-City of Chicago
105-Cook County
106-City of Lockport
107-City of Oak Forest
108-Will County
109-Village of Robbins
110-Brainerd
111-Beverly Hills
112-Morgan Park
113-Village of Midlothian
114-Village of Tinley Park
115-Village of Oak Lawn *
116-Village of Orland Park *
117-Village of Palos Park *
118-McHenry County
119-Village of Cary
120-City of Woodstock
121-Lake County
122-Village of Deerfield
123-Village of Libertyville
124-City of Lake Forest
125-DuPage County
126-Kane County
127-Village of Glenview

This is interesting because I basically answered my own questions and I noted three units with SWS line names-marked with * which I believe were assigned to N&W service...This information might go well with the F40 Rebuilding Program section...How many of these are still in METRA service today if anyone knows?

MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote:How many of these are still in METRA service today if anyone knows?

No F40PH has been retired, all remain in service.. Metra is currently rebuilding all F40's, so they will be around for quite a while. Prior to the assignment shifts due to the rebuilding, 116 was the only unit running on SWS holding a name for the line. Currently it is only 115, however the unit has run more on BNSF than SWS. 117 has yet to be seen on any line after returning from rebuild.

We still talking about the N&W service of the 1970s?

Otto: Yes we are-my question was about the original RTA F40s used on lines like the N&W
-the names were a tip-off for their original assignments and I noted the three used in N&W service...

Since I posted the entire list of the original 28 F40s I asked that the information be posted also in the F40PH rebuilding section of METRA...

MetraRI: Thanks for the reply-I think it is impressive that practically the entire original F40 group is now in METRA service today...I would like to know if they had been rebuilt with separate HEP generators like NJ Transit's version eliminating the high-notch "screamer"version...if this question should be placed in the F40 rebuild section please do so...

Speaking more about SWS service: Have any of the other diesel unit types used by METRA
been regularly used in SWS service?

Another thought: Does anyone have any pictures of the N&W train at the Polk/Clark station in the 70s prior to the move to Union Station in October 1976? I remember the one used track was right alongside Clark Street making the train very visible and I wonder if anyone took
a picture of the small building used as a ticket office on the SE corner of that intersection?

Thanks to anyone who may have those pictures in advance...MACTRAXX

Since SWS is maintained by BNSF, you see BNSF cars and locomotives, including Winnebagos, on SWS. They're still screamers, there hasn't been any non-shaft-driven HEP since N&W geeps. That's why I like MP's because they generate acceptable HEP at like Run-3 rather than Run-8 - a little more bearable to walk past in CUS on the way out the north exit.

MACTRAXX wrote:Speaking more about SWS service: Have any of the other diesel unit types used by METRA been regularly used in SWS service?

SWS has definitely seen a shift in power through the years. When trains were serviced at Western Avenue it would be rare to find anything other than a PH leading. When the move over to BNSF at 14th Street happened, PH's still had control of most trains... occasionally a PHM-2 or PH-2 would run south. Right now on a typical day 4 of the 5 trains have a PHM-2 in the lead, even with 2 PH's still in the BNSF/SWS pool.. the 5th set usually has PH-2 183 or 184. For whatever reason, rebuilt F40PH-3's have not been used much on SWS. Although, tonight 115 was trailing 192.

Interesting topic I never got to see or ride the SWS with NW equipment so I love the pictures posted here and on the net. I do remember years ago (ok decades, were talking MId 90s) I was out for a stroll between ashburn and wrightwood and noticed something rather peculiar, a SWS Metra with a F40 on the head being lead by a NW locomotive as well? I cant remember much rather than that but it was rather odd my guess was a break down? anyone ever noticed such on the SWS ?

I'm guessing the GP9's were former NKP and N&W steam-heat geeps. How did the GP40's power / light the trains in N&W era?

Tadman wrote:I'm guessing the GP9's were former NKP and N&W steam-heat geeps. How did the GP40's power / light the trains in N&W era?

I've heard there was a baggage car equipped with a steam generator for the coaches after N&W started running the service with a GP40 in the early 70's, but pics of that car have been hard to come by...