Red, Yellow, and Orange extensions...

Earlier this week, the CTA board approved extensions to three of its lines, to 130th St., Ford City, and Old Orchard, respectively. A few questions:

1) Does Yellow really need an extension to Old Orchard? Especially when there's plenty of CTA & Pace service in the area?

2) Would it be feasible to add a third track for rush hour express service between Cermak and 95th? Could definitely benefit rush hour commuters boarding or alighting south of 95th; when the extension is finished, that's gonna be about a 15 mile ride to downtown from 130th...

3) The article didn't say, but I'm assuming that the Orange extension will continue south adjacent to the Belt Railway (BRC) ROW toward Clearing yard. Just south of Marquette Road, about a mile south of the current terminal, the ROW splits in both directions, so in order to get to Cicero, it will have to curve to the west, then over the yard. Is the new ROW going to remain elevated over (or adjacent) to Cicero all the way to 76th?

4) Will they still keep the yards at Midway and 95th after the extensions are done, or will these be replaced by new facilities at 130th & Ford City?

5) The article says 78 new cars will be added to the Red line. Yellow probably won't need any additional equipment, but what about Orange?

6) The Red line extension to 130th has been talked about off and on for at least the last three decades. I know rebuilding other parts of the system became a priority, but still, did it have to take this long for it to be approved?

Most of your questions can be answered by looking at the power point presentation from the meeting:

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/ ... t_2009.pdf
available from the CTA

But I will attempt to summarize and answer your questions so you do not have to read it if you do not want to. Plus I am having a hard time concentrating on work because it is Friday and the USAF Thunderbirds are rather distracting.

1. I think a lot of people share your skepticism of the yellow line extension. It is a lot of money for relatively few passengers but it meets New Starts cost effectiveness guidelines and by my rudimentary cost/benefit analysis, I just took the cost divided by the annual ridership estimates from 2030, the yellow line extension will be just a little more costly than the red line extension and about half as costly as the Orange line extension. Perhaps there is not a huge demand for it to be a top priority but its through alternative analysis and certainly isn't a waste of money, so I do not think it should be scrapped or anything. People that I have talked to say that the money should be used to upgrade red line stations and do not get that there is no money yet and it cannot be switched from one project to the other.

2. I doubt it but I have no idea. I am glad though that I will not have to make the commute from 130th downtown everyday or for that matter from a bus to 95th and then all the way downtown either. So I guess any kind of an improvement is needed. I would not mind seeing more express trains.

3. All your assumptions are correct. Looking back at previous presentations as well, it will be built in a trench until Marquette where it will be elevated over Marquette and the rail yard where it will scoot west to Cicero. But the location of the elevated section (over or adjacent to Cicero) had not been determined as of the last public meeting. I do not know if that has changed yet or will be decided on during engineering.

4. The presentation says that a replacement site for the 98th street yard has been identified but not included in the price of the project. Which is somewhat surprising to me since I was hoping that the large price tag could be somewhat rationalized with the inclusion of the replacement yard. It does not say anything about a new yard at Ford City.

5. The proposal calls for 20 new railcars for the Orange Line and 4 new cars for the yellow line. All of which I believe are included in the cost estimates.

6. Goes to show how much of a hole we have been in with regards to transit funding for so long. Also, none of these extensions will be finished or even start construction anytime soon making that hole even larger.

Doepack and Ravenswood: Interesting news on these three proposed CTA extensions - let me add some thoughts:

1-Skokie Swift to the Old Orchard Shopping Center-a good move for just a mile and a half from Dempster am I right? That may generate ridership on the SS going there
but will parking there be a potential problem?

2-Midway Line extension to the Ford City Center and mall-a good move that will again generate ridership. I am famaliar with FC because my relatives only lived 2 miles E
near 79/Kedzie and I remember that the SW Side W of Western Avenue was once one of the most rail-transit neglected areas in the City of Chicago. With the sharp
racial divide back in my Chicago visiting days I recall that there were provisions for an extension of the Englewood L W to Midway-all of 4 miles-but staunch opposition
to any CTA rail line being built further serving the SW Side pretty much ended any thought of extending any CTA line further SW until the Midway Line was built in the
90s - Has any thought been put forth for the possibility of
extending this line down towards 95/Cicero if anyone knows? Could that hurt METRA SWS ridership?

3-A Dan Ryan line extension down to 130th is a good idea-I recall my Uncle showing me the Dan Ryan yard S of 95/State and the provisions in the I-94 median strip to
allow for a future extension. I always found that yard's location to be an interesting place and I now wonder if having that yard there has kept vandals at bay from
tagging CTA trains as a good example over time. The only rail alternative available for riders in that new area to be served is Hegewisch on the South Shore Line
and Metra Electric stations like Riverdale am I right?

In closing this is good to see but will these projects get built knowing the funding problems today? Thoughts from MACTRAXX

doepack wrote:Earlier this week, the CTA board approved extensions to three of its lines, to 130th St., Ford City, and Old Orchard, respectively. A few questions:

2) Would it be feasible to add a third track for rush hour express service between Cermak and 95th? Could definitely benefit rush hour commuters boarding or alighting south of 95th; when the extension is finished, that's gonna be about a 15 mile ride to downtown from 130th...

3) The article didn't say, but I'm assuming that the Orange extension will continue south adjacent to the Belt Railway (BRC) ROW toward Clearing yard. Just south of Marquette Road, about a mile south of the current terminal, the ROW splits in both directions, so in order to get to Cicero, it will have to curve to the west, then over the yard. Is the new ROW going to remain elevated over (or adjacent) to Cicero all the way to 76th?

4) Will they still keep the yards at Midway and 95th after the extensions are done, or will these be replaced by new facilities at 130th & Ford City?

6) The Red line extension to 130th has been talked about off and on for at least the last three decades. I know rebuilding other parts of the system became a priority, but still, did it have to take this long for it to be approved?

Others have answered, so I'll only respond to what's leftover.

(2) I don't think you will find there's room for a third track. The Eisenhower is the only median with room for express tracks. Compare the 15 mile ride to O'Hare to downtown or Linden to the Loop.

(3) Routing is actually surface level and duck unders at 59th and at 63rd. Elevated all the rest of the way with a concrete "Y" in median of Cicero AV.

(4) New yard for Red line next to smelly sewage treatment plant, EEEUWW!! Keep same yard for Midway. 98th ST will become another 61st ST yard.

(6) Old Orchard as a terminal dates back to the 60s. There were even plans for the CTA to take over the former CNSA&M. Red line LPA doesn't follow at all the planning when the DR was built....use medians that were included in I-57 and I-94.

David Harrison

1) Parking may be just 1 problem. Adequate access by bus transfer could be another. We'll see how they manage the connections.
2)Doubt if the rebuilt DR has any room for a 3rd track. I'd like to see increased use of the old Green Line as an alternative. Connections with Purple/Brown trains provide connections with NS destinations, cub games. It may be an error not to follow I-94 & I-57 medians, but the alternate route could be a viable alternative. Hope the new station provides better access than the 95th street one.
3) Orange trains could continue to use the trench to 63rd & Marquette. I'd add a station on Marquette. Some CTA bus routes could connect there, relieving some congestion from the Midway stop. The Ford City stop may depend how much CTA wants to serve just the mall or be close to Cicero. There may be a problem with ROW over parking lots near Cicero. Having a El structure down the middle of Cicero creates a traffic hazard. Having a El structure near/over the Clearing BRC yard would be great for sharp shooters.
4) I see no reason to move the Midway yard. The 95th street yard could be moved further south unless the CTA wants to offer flip service from 95th. The studies may show how much travel time the addition adds.
5) These additions have been talked about for years. I suspect the dollars to move them have been locked away in Springfield & Washington. There may be money to build an interstate connection from Quincy to Galesburg that could spell trouble for IZ service.