The "Ocean" VIA Overnight Sleeper

Firstly, I'm somewhat concerned about the above postings in relation to poor staff attitudes. While I am certainly no apologist for VIA when things aren't up to par, I have to say I've been lucky in that the vast majority of staff I've encountered in the last 20 years have been very polite. There are a few grouches I remember well from the Canadian and the Ocean, but they have retired - not a minute too soon - or in the case of younger people, they have found a job they like better. Service issues have centred around Activity Coordinators on the Canadian or Learning Coordinators on the Ocean not having any interest in their jobs - and there are very few with that attitude. I don't for a minute doubt what anyone says about their experiences, so it must be the luck of the draw.

Regarding bilingualism, there are some occasions on the off-peak Chaleur and Ocean when most of the former and many of the passengers on the latter are Francophones. Although English is willingly spoken by the crew, announcements are sometimes made only in French. I was travelling with a group of friends on the Chaleur about a year ago when we encountered some serious problems. At the Grand Riveiere station, which was as far as we were going by train, and later at Campbellton, announcements were made in French. I know enough French that the words "autobus" and "pas de voiture lits" strike fear in the heart of any train travel fan. For the benefit of my friends who understand less French than I do, I have had to ask for announcements to be repeated in English. I don't think this is a problem during the peak season when there are many tourists aboard.

The requirement of bilingual on-board staff has caused problems in Winnipeg, the principal crew centre for the Canadian. There have been times when insufficient bilingual staff can be hired for the peak-consist season (which is about six months long) so the trains sometimes run understaffed. VIA will not back down on this requirement, so I am told by a service manager friend of mine. So three summers ago there was a severe shortage and one dining car steward - one of the finest VIA employees - took early retirement in disgust because he could not provide a first-class experience in his diner.

Regarding the dome lights, I made enquiries of my SM friend about the official policy in answer to this question on another forum. The dome lights in coach class Skyline cars are to be left on, but off in first class Skyline and Park cars. My friend told me of employees (who were trying to be nice to passengers who made enquiries) being disciplined for turning off coach lights in the Skyline dome when outrages have occurred. I will leave it to your imagination on what was involved, but I have been told of several incidents involving alcohol, drugs and, if I may be permitted a quaint old expression, "pleasures of the flesh."

I have noticed a lot of cosmetic refurbishing on the Budd equipment. Most of the sleepers I have been in or walked through have had new carpeting and in many cases new upholstery and wallpaper in the rooms.

Alright, I just made my return trip on The Ocean this past Friday-Saturday (Feb. 27-28), and so have a few points of comparison to add. This time around, it was the Ren cars as opposed to the Budd set (which left Halifax Saturday afternoon for Montreal). Traveling coach class again, I had a better sense of exactly how the to cars compare. I was in the single seat row, which I will say is a major plus for the Ren cars when you're traveling alone (if you can get it of course).

Basically, here are the things I prefer about the Renaissance coaches:
- smoother ride. Definitely less bouncing and rattling than the Budd cars.
- Individual window shades. I know some people complain about the fact that they cut the window in half, but face it, it's a lot better than having the person sitting in front of you close the blind blocking your window as well
- Under the seat storage. Although I suppose this just really makes up for the absolute lack of overhead storage.
- Individual seating (I already mentioned). As a frequent solo passenger, this can be a welcome break.
- between-car transitions. Very smooth and quiet.

But right about there the pluses end. Overall, I'd still pick the Budd consist. The biggest reason is the availability of the Skyline Dome/Lounge car. Yes, the Ren cars have the Park car in the summer, but it'll be quite some time before I see the day I can afford to travel Easterly class. And yes, they have the service cars, but those things have barely any room in them! All it took was 3 people sitting strategically, and I couldn't find anywhere that seemed appropriate to sit without disturbing someone. If you're interested in meeting other passengers on the train, your chances are pretty limited on the Renaissance.

I think, to be honest, that the Ren cars are much better suited to the high-speed shorter Corridor runs, at least as far as the coaches and service cars go. In that application, I think they can compare with (although still not beat) the LRC's.

Anyway, my overall trip was quite good. Although I must make another comment on the staff. On my first train (Train 60 to Montreal), there was a purely lovely attendant in our car, who was incredibly polite and friendly. Another one of the onboard crew came through at one point, and was very much the same.

However, once I got on the Ocean, things changed. Yes, there was one fellow on board who was collecting tickets who seemed quite friendly, but the main attendant in our car was, well.... She never smiled. When she was handing out pillows and blankets she more just tossed them on to me, and walked past. I said very politely "thank you" each time, but she never acknowledged it. She was also handling the counter in the service car at one point, and gave the same impression. She didn't even say anything like "can I help you?", she just stood and waited for me to ask for something. When I did, she grabbed it, handed it to me and asked for the money. While I got it out (exact change, I should mention), she was putting other things in order, and then took it and moved on to the next customer, with no word of thanks. Unfortunately, I've dealt with more people around VIA that are like her, rather than the first attendant I mentioned. Perhaps VIA needs to better stress the common courtesies in their training.

Of course this particular staff member gave me some strange looks when, at one of the smoke breaks, I got out and started crouching down with my camera to take pictures of the truly bizarre couplers and what-not between the Renaissance coaches....but to be fair, a lot of people would give me strange looks for that too!

All-in-all, the second half of my round trip was fully satisfactory, and I look forward to my next opportunity (which will likely be a 1-way at the end of May)!

it sounds like via rail is not any better with additude then amtrak is. the only thing via is better at then amtrak is that via rail knows how to maintain there cars to a higher standard.

Very surprised to hear about the bad "attitude" or service on VIA's Ocean. I have always had great service on VIA trains - corridor, Ocean, Chaleur, Canadian, Skeena all included. However, I have commented as well that the Renaissance Service Cars are less than satisfactory when it comes to trying to operate as both as a cafe and lounge. Even though they did some work on these cars (new upholstery etc.) it just wasn't enough. The service cars really need to be re-configured so there is better seating for all - sleeper and coach passengers. There's a lot of wasted space in these "Renaissance Service Cars." When the Park Dome/Lounge Car is in operation for Easterly Class passengers, this helps the Ocean consist - but just for Easterly class passengers and for only part of the year.

Some other descent "lounge/cafe" car really needs to emerge from the Renaissance Service cars - particularly for the Ocean. It's too bad that a "Renaissance Sleeper shell" (which are to be scrapped) was also not transformed into a descent lounge for each of the three Ocean consists. I even suggested this for the "transition car" (a lounge of sorts) at one time, but that car is positione at the rear of the train set (or front of the train set as a baggage car) largely to facilitate the regular ex-CP Budd stainless steel equipment (i.e. Park Dome/Lounge Car). Having coach or sleeping car passengers endure the route of the Ocean from just their sleeper or coach and then the diner, is somewhat restrictive for what most VIA overnight trains offer. The Diner on the Hudson Bay Route even doubles as a diner and lounge of sorts.

Certainly Easterly Class fares are quite high, but so are the "Comfort sleeper" fares in the summer. There's not a lot of difference between the two in the peak season. The huge difference comes in autumn, after 7th September, when the Easterly Class fares stay at the peak (until the Easterly season ends on 14th October) yet off-peak fares are available in the Comfort sleepers.

There are some discounts: coupons are sent to VIA Preference members at the two higher levels. Last summer my wife and I both received an additional special coupon for 45% off. Rather surprisingly, there are already some half-price tickets for the summer season being sold for both the Ocean and the Canadian. This Express site is updated every Wednesday. The deals are good, but the catch is: no changes or cancellations permitted.

http://www2.viarail.ca/expressdeals

marquisofmississauga wrote:Certainly Easterly Class fares are quite high, but so are the "Comfort sleeper" fares in the summer. There's not a lot of difference between the two in the peak season. The huge difference comes in autumn, after 7th September

This is precisely why I like to travel in the winter. Plus it's less busy.

On a recent trip, I was floored to see the departure time for The Ocean Limited had been made earlier (?). Now, it is impossible to take The Adirondack from New York and connect in time for the night departure of The Ocean.

I realize that's great for local tourism, forcing people to get a hotel room instead of being to continue in movement, anyone know why the change was made?

D/

It seems to me that it has been on this same departure and arrival schedule since at least around 2000 - the year I first rode the Ocean. Yes, definitely no connection from the Adirondack promised to the Ocean - at least for the northbound Adirondack to the eastbound Ocean. The opposite direction may work - especially if using St. Lambert.

I just rode the Ocean east to west, but forgot to ask the crew how and where that train is turned around at Halifax. Of course the Ocean is already pointed in the right directlon at boarding time in Halifax. I tried looking at the google satelite photos but couldn't find a definitive wye point,.
Someone please fill me in on the details. Thank You.

The Ocean is turned on the Balloon Track through the Container Terminal near the station. If this track is unavailable the consist has occasionally been backed out to Windsor Junction (15 miles) to be turned on the wye at the jct with the Windsor & Hantsport Railway (former Dominion Atlantic)

You can see the Balloon Track loop here.....just east of Marginal Rd and Point Pleasant Drive.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s ... 15&iwloc=A

Take a look at the 9th photo on this page: http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/page ... 004_1.html

You will see David Othen's June 2004 photo of the Ocean's consist, with private car MOUNT VERNON behind the PARK car, being turned on the ballon track at the intermodal ocean cargo terminal at the Port of Halifax.

What is the private car scene like today up in Canada? My understanding is that VIA has gotten a lot stricter, and for one thing won't allow private cars on the tail end if a Park Car is on the tail end now. And of course, operating a private rail car with a Renaissance consist is not possible, thus eliminating private car options in the Maritimes. True?

jp1822 said: "And of course, operating a private rail car with a Renaissance consist is not possible, , , "

This is not true, because of course the Renaissance "Ocean" runs with a Park Car on the tail. Via has "transition Renaissance cars" which attach to the Renaissance train set, on one end with drawbars (or whatever), while having a traditional coupler and diaphragm on the other end to attach to 'traditional' cars (I suspect that the baggage car, at the head end of the consist, has a similar treatment). For some unexplained reason, that 'transition' car (between the sleepers and the Park Car) contains nothing for the passengers, no seats, no bedrooms, just a long, empty carpeted room, with two mechanicals cabinets and with the windows covered. On the other hand, whether or not Via would run that car on the tail of a Renaissance train set for the sole purpose of attaching a private car is a separate question.

Nevertheless, I do believe that Via does now ban attaching private varnish to Park Cars. I'm not sure if that's due to public presure or just not wanting the bother; my experience with Park Cars is that the observation seating area is rarely populated except when it gets too dark to see out from within the dome.

I would like to thank all the contributors for the answer to my initial question and for photo attachments. I invite you all to read my "Wisconsin to Nova Scotia to Montreal and Back" Trip Report, in that section of the Forum.

Scoring Guy wrote:jp1822 said: "And of course, operating a private rail car with a Renaissance consist is not possible, , , "

This is not true, because of course the Renaissance "Ocean" runs with a Park Car on the tail. Via has "transition Renaissance cars" which attach to the Renaissance train set, on one end with drawbars (or whatever), while having a traditional coupler and diaphragm on the other end to attach to 'traditional' cars (I suspect that the baggage car, at the head end of the consist, has a similar treatment). For some unexplained reason, that 'transition' car (between the sleepers and the Park Car) contains nothing for the passengers, no seats, no bedrooms, just a long, empty carpeted room, with two mechanicals cabinets and with the windows covered. On the other hand, whether or not Via would run that car on the tail of a Renaissance train set for the sole purpose of attaching a private car is a separate question.

Nevertheless, I do believe that Via does now ban attaching private varnish to Park Cars. I'm not sure if that's due to public presure or just not wanting the bother; my experience with Park Cars is that the observation seating area is rarely populated except when it gets too dark to see out from within the dome.

I would like to thank all the contributors for the answer to my initial question and for photo attachments. I invite you all to read my "Wisconsin to Nova Scotia to Montreal and Back" Trip Report, in that section of the Forum.

I should have phrased this differently. Yes, I realize this can be done with a "Renaissance transition car" - to attach a private rail car at therear. But as mentioned above, would VIA be willing to engage in such. At one time, Via was short on Renaisssance transition cars for some reason - maintenance or otherwise. Not sure what the issue was.

Last year on the Ocean I met a couple of men who own a private car and have operated it behind VIA trains. VIA has indeed banned private cars behind the Park car because many passengers have been furious at spending up to $2000 each to be denied one of the advertised views. I note with amusement that VIA will still haul its own deadhead equipment behind a Park car. This has happened to me and I have seen it on other trains since the ban. These gentlemen were told by VIA that their private car could be carried on the off-season Ocean, but they would have to pay for the transition car which would also incur haulage charges by CN.

I arrived in Halifax last Tuesday and from the Nova Scotian Hotel adjacent to the station we observed the Ocean being turned on the "balloon track."