M1 destination signs

This is new to me! Are these destination signs above the operator's front window? If so, how long were they used on the M1's? And why were they discontinued?

Frankie

This has been discussed sometime ago. They were in fact destination roll signs, They were manually adjusted per branch by the crew. I believe they only said the "branch" the trains were traveling on. The sign in the engineers cab would say BABYLON and the same for the ones on the side. I am not sure if they had each station on them. The signs eventually fell into disuse and were eventually removed or collected by employees of the time for their private collection. The signs that were not saved somehow were disposed of. Too bad they did not think to sell them to the public. It would have made some money.

off topic, but in the first shot, is there someone taking a picture of the person taking a picture of the train, or is it just me...

off topic, but in the first shot, is there someone taking a picture of the person taking a picture of the train, or is it just me...

Geez, you blew his cover. They're going to want to take that guy in for questioning now.

Jay

The M-3's had manual roll signs. They were at the top of the engineers' windshield and were adjusted with a crank. The LIRR even negotiated with the BLE to have the engineers change the signs. As they broke and got stolen they were not replaced.

The M-1's came with roll signs of their own, which were much more ambitious than the M-3's. They had destinations such as Riverhead, JFK Airport and World Trade Center. The signs were mounted above the windshield and next to each door both inside and out.

Unlike the M-3 signs, the M-1 ones were controlled automatically and were tied into an "Identra" system. A two letter code would be dialed into the Identra unit which was located in the radio locker. The train was then supposed to signal its destination, magnetically, to wayside receivers which would line its route. The code would also set the destination signs using a primitive bar code on the sign fabric. Identra didn't work out and was removed in 1972 along with the M-1roll signs.

An interesting note is that the only place that had an Identra receiver installed on the LIRR was Valley.

M-1's also had a throttle position, ATO, that would respond to speed control codes to control the speed of the train. The engineer would then only have to stop for stations and signals. This too was removed to avoid maintenance costs. To the end, every M-1 had an ATO position on its controller. After its removal, the position would just apply the brakes.

Thanks for the informative post.
The M1 seemed to be ahead of their day with a primitive ASI and an ATO function.
What was the reasoning behind stations such as the WTC and Riverhead and JFK for on the signs?
Was it just high ambitions? possible dreams of the day to extend FBA to the WTC and so on?

Thank you gents for your great input. I appreciate it.

Here's just one more photo via a link! This is a great shot of the front and side destination. Looks like the front one was installed upside down!

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_lirr9001.jpg

Frankie

Work Extra: You need to understand the futuristic mentality of the newly created MTA in the late 1960's. They saw themselves (somewhat correctly) as the dawn of a new, modern era in New York area transportation. Their mission was to pull the LIRR and NYC subways out of the pre-World War II era and into the future. They succeeded to a reasonable extent. The M-1 was technologically v-e-r-y state-of-the-art and a little ahead of its time. But they sort of tried to do too much, too fast and some of their visions didn't work out. Like the Identra system. And the Second Ave. subway which is now back in-play after 30 years. MTA really thought that by the end of the 70's they would be operating new subway and rail lines with all new state-of-the art equipment, etc. Some aspects of their grandiose plans that didn't pan out were the victims of political reality, lack of funding, and being over ambitious about what could be accomplished in the real world.

That's it, Head. Ambitious plans! The MTA of 1968 was exactly as you describe.

There was also federal money, in the form of UMTA grants available for new, experimental technology and the MTA took advantage of them.

Now for an interesting sign, you have to see the ones that came with the GTE cars. They had locations up and down the East Coast...

The roll sign in that picture wasn't installed improperly. The front and side sign rolls were the same. Since the same side signs appeared through windows both inside and outside the car, each roll had the destination printed twice, one time inverted for display on both sides. The sign in the picture just malfunctioned, as they usually did.

IDENTRA set the signs using a simple bar code on the sign fabric and a three-or-five photocell bank to read them. The signs would rotate until the proper "code" was read. It seams like bright sunlight and of course dirt affected the reading and the signs would continue to roll back and forth without finding their proper setting. Eventually they would break or rip off their spools.

LongIslandTool wrote:Now for an interesting sign, you have to see the ones that came with the GTE cars. They had locations up and down the East Coast...

Not quite, but close!! They did contain Hudson, Harlem, and Port Jervis Line destinations, though. For the gas-turbine roll sign discussion, please see: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=122243

-otto-

One I took around 1973 of an M-1 side indicator. They stopped using them not long after that, they had many "bugs"!