Well, according to Gene Poon on All Aboard, 1(29) and 2(30) have been cancelled.
1(27) is running 7.5 hours late as of HOS, 2(25) arrived in Orlando 6:04 late.
Amtrak.com shows no availability for the apparently cancelled trains. Further, 1(1 July) and 2(2 July) are showing "sold out." This is either because they have blanked all availability, or they are reaccommodating all of the displaced passengers from the two cancelled trains.
The 4 July originating trains still show space available.
Railroad Forums
The Sunset Limited's recent performance
- Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman
by BNSF 1088
This is not going away anytime soon.This is what is going on UP Sunset route can handle 30 trains a day right now there running 33-35 which is over the limit.BNSF trains are being held in Lafayette and Houston for days because UP can't take us because of the train limit on the Sunset Route Also BNSF is closeing Silsbe TX on July 4th so all those trains will be running from Houston to Lafayette La.
by mattfels
33-35 mph? That sounds high.
It's important to note that UP's systemwide average train speed is way down from last year. Average speed of all trains in the 2nd quarter of 2003 was 23.9 mph; the week of June 18 it was 21.3 mph. But let's look at intermodal trains, which is a lot of what moves over the route in question. There the drop is even more pronounced: from 30.4 mph to 26.4 mph. That's a CSX-caliber figure--not good. BNSF, by the way, is maintaining an average speed for intermodal trains over 30 mph.
That's from the railroads themselves, via AAR's Railroad Performance Measures. But how much easier to check the status of the Amtrak trains. As Mr. Gunn himself says, Amtrak is the canary in the coal mine.
It's important to note that UP's systemwide average train speed is way down from last year. Average speed of all trains in the 2nd quarter of 2003 was 23.9 mph; the week of June 18 it was 21.3 mph. But let's look at intermodal trains, which is a lot of what moves over the route in question. There the drop is even more pronounced: from 30.4 mph to 26.4 mph. That's a CSX-caliber figure--not good. BNSF, by the way, is maintaining an average speed for intermodal trains over 30 mph.
That's from the railroads themselves, via AAR's Railroad Performance Measures. But how much easier to check the status of the Amtrak trains. As Mr. Gunn himself says, Amtrak is the canary in the coal mine.
Last edited by mattfels on Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
by RMadisonWI
One reason suggested (though not officially confirmed) for the cancellation of trains 1(29) and 2(30) was the serious BNSF/UP collision in San Antonio, in which two crewmembers died, and possibly two (or more) residents died due to inhaling toxic fumes released from cars during the collision.
Enroute Sunsets were bussed between El Paso and San Antonio.
Enroute Sunsets were bussed between El Paso and San Antonio.
by John_Perkowski
33-35 was not a velocity figure.
Mr 1088 was stating a max of 30 movements per day past any one point is the capacity of the Sunset Route.
He was also stating that UP is running the route at 110-114% of capacity.
regards, John
Mr 1088 was stating a max of 30 movements per day past any one point is the capacity of the Sunset Route.
He was also stating that UP is running the route at 110-114% of capacity.
regards, John
by mattfels
Indeed. My mistake. I appreciate the correction.
I do wonder, though, where that 30/day figure comes from. Surely that's speed-dependent. All else being equal, raising average train speed would increase a line's capacity, right?
By the way, there's a most informative graphic on page 100 of the new strategic plan. Red lines indicate where freight-train related delays approach "breakdown" levels. There are 4 such segments in the Amtrak network, and the longest 2 are on the Sunset's route: LAX-ELP, and again NOL-JAX.
I do wonder, though, where that 30/day figure comes from. Surely that's speed-dependent. All else being equal, raising average train speed would increase a line's capacity, right?
By the way, there's a most informative graphic on page 100 of the new strategic plan. Red lines indicate where freight-train related delays approach "breakdown" levels. There are 4 such segments in the Amtrak network, and the longest 2 are on the Sunset's route: LAX-ELP, and again NOL-JAX.
by RMadisonWI
Train 1(11) is over a day late, and it's not even half way through it's journey (latest report, according to Amtrak.com, was 26:35 late at Houston).
The train originated in Sanford, FL, leaving over 5 hours late due to the late arrival of the eastbound train 2, which arrived extremely late (10 hours 5 minutes) into Orlando that morning (due in the previous night).
It got stuck waiting for CSX to complete some emergency bridge repair work, and then was held in New Orleans for around 6 hours while UP (I think) performed some other work, which the Sunset had missed its slot to travel through due to its extreme late operation. It left New Orleans at 4:00 AM, over 16 hours late.
Amtrak has once again cancelled a round trip of the Sunset Limited, yesterday's and today's departures from Orlando and Los Angeles, respectively (though this decision was apparently made before 1(11) got a day late).
And the troubles continue with no end in sight.
The train originated in Sanford, FL, leaving over 5 hours late due to the late arrival of the eastbound train 2, which arrived extremely late (10 hours 5 minutes) into Orlando that morning (due in the previous night).
It got stuck waiting for CSX to complete some emergency bridge repair work, and then was held in New Orleans for around 6 hours while UP (I think) performed some other work, which the Sunset had missed its slot to travel through due to its extreme late operation. It left New Orleans at 4:00 AM, over 16 hours late.
Amtrak has once again cancelled a round trip of the Sunset Limited, yesterday's and today's departures from Orlando and Los Angeles, respectively (though this decision was apparently made before 1(11) got a day late).
And the troubles continue with no end in sight.
by John_Perkowski
A part of this we can lay to a stressed equipment fleet.
Let's take the example of the Santa Fe, using the Chief and the Super Chief/El Capitan during their daily service.
To run an 1800 mile route, each of these trains ran with 5 sets of equipment ... Two sets leaving the Chicago and LA termini daily, two sets midway on the route (due into the termini the next day) and a fifth set at the coach yard cleaning and re-stocking ... and available for emergency protection at that termini.
Further, the SF had sufficient older (but suitable) equipment to make up an emergency consist. Quite often the public timetables carried a note that stated "equipment is not guaranteed."
It does not really matter the road. GN, CB&Q, NP, UP, SP, IC, and so on... many ordered a spare set of equipment to protect the service of their trains, and they also had adequate "hand-me-down" coaches and Pullmans in hand to take care of any emergency.
As we've seen in this thread, Amtrak has an emergency consist at LA: Horizon cars and their very last dome. Amtrak operations folks have used that to get folks into Arizona to meet up with the Sunset when they annul the WB Sunset in AZ.
I understand Mr Gunn's capital requirements for rolling stock and real property maintenance, as he's placed in his recent official reports. I trust and hope he will advocate continued capital procurement for his rolling stock. An adequate fleet helps improve system-wide service.
John
Let's take the example of the Santa Fe, using the Chief and the Super Chief/El Capitan during their daily service.
To run an 1800 mile route, each of these trains ran with 5 sets of equipment ... Two sets leaving the Chicago and LA termini daily, two sets midway on the route (due into the termini the next day) and a fifth set at the coach yard cleaning and re-stocking ... and available for emergency protection at that termini.
Further, the SF had sufficient older (but suitable) equipment to make up an emergency consist. Quite often the public timetables carried a note that stated "equipment is not guaranteed."
It does not really matter the road. GN, CB&Q, NP, UP, SP, IC, and so on... many ordered a spare set of equipment to protect the service of their trains, and they also had adequate "hand-me-down" coaches and Pullmans in hand to take care of any emergency.
As we've seen in this thread, Amtrak has an emergency consist at LA: Horizon cars and their very last dome. Amtrak operations folks have used that to get folks into Arizona to meet up with the Sunset when they annul the WB Sunset in AZ.
I understand Mr Gunn's capital requirements for rolling stock and real property maintenance, as he's placed in his recent official reports. I trust and hope he will advocate continued capital procurement for his rolling stock. An adequate fleet helps improve system-wide service.
John
by Gilbert B Norman
All of the premier Western trains in service during the sixties, save the California Zephyr, were protected with five sets. The Zephyr needed six.
However, in order to ensure that there was no "dilution" in the quality of equipment offered, the premier trains always were ordered with six sets of equipment. As such, passengers were not "deprived" when the "feature" cars were shopped for "heavy" repairs, which you can be ceretain were done "by the book'.
Several roads even had seven of a "feature" car on the roster - the one coming to mind for this was the CZ. However, instead of this seventh dome obs car, the CB&Q "Silver Lookout" was not added until 1952 (the six sets delivered 1949) when the original equipment was due for a "heavy".
However, in order to ensure that there was no "dilution" in the quality of equipment offered, the premier trains always were ordered with six sets of equipment. As such, passengers were not "deprived" when the "feature" cars were shopped for "heavy" repairs, which you can be ceretain were done "by the book'.
Several roads even had seven of a "feature" car on the roster - the one coming to mind for this was the CZ. However, instead of this seventh dome obs car, the CB&Q "Silver Lookout" was not added until 1952 (the six sets delivered 1949) when the original equipment was due for a "heavy".
by mattfels
To bring this back to the Sunset, one of those dome cars, Silver Horizon, is Amtrak's station building in Maricopa, AZ, a stop on the Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited route.
by John_Perkowski
Matt,
Also coming back to the Sunset.
Will agree that the UP and whoever runs E of the Mississippi own their fair share of the delay due to a slow railroad running at capacity.
Even so, a 3000 mile roundtrip is nearly double any other single run. Spare trainsets at LA and FL (available to protect multiple Superliner services), primarily for the Sunset, but concurrently available for Starlight, SWC on West Coast (and a day away from the Bay area for a CZ protect), and whatever trains on the East Coast, feels like a prudent thing to do.
Of course, with the current fleet, that implies Amtrak does a helluva lot more wreck repairs!
John
Also coming back to the Sunset.
Will agree that the UP and whoever runs E of the Mississippi own their fair share of the delay due to a slow railroad running at capacity.
Even so, a 3000 mile roundtrip is nearly double any other single run. Spare trainsets at LA and FL (available to protect multiple Superliner services), primarily for the Sunset, but concurrently available for Starlight, SWC on West Coast (and a day away from the Bay area for a CZ protect), and whatever trains on the East Coast, feels like a prudent thing to do.
Of course, with the current fleet, that implies Amtrak does a helluva lot more wreck repairs!
John
by mattfels
Here are the route lengths in rail miles, according to the current system timetable:
Code: Select all
The Sunset's route is twice as long as the Coast Starlight's or Silver Meteor's (1,389 mi) or Silver Meteor's. But it's not THAT much longer than the other east-west trains.Sunset Limited 2764
California Zephyr 2438
Southwest Chief 2258
Empire Builder 2206
