Double bedrooms on train 1

Will be taking train 1 from Toronto to Vancouver in late September and am wonderiing if all the double bedrooms are the same size. It appears that bedroom F on the Manor car is larger than B-E. Is this the case or just a bad diagram of the car. Are all the sleepers Manor cars or are there some Chateau cars too?
Tried to book double in Park Car but all gone - currently have room B in car 114 (the 14th sleeper?). Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Would also appreciate suggestions for hotel in Toronto.
Last question - on time performance. Am familiar with Amtrak OTP (not their fault) - question is how much time should I allow to get from train station to airport to check in for flight to US? Assume best way to xfer is by taxi.

Bedroom "F" in a Manor sleeper is significantly bigger than all other double rooms. I measured it as 16 inches. The difference is most notable at night. It is possible to keep one of the chairs up. Although both chairs can be left up, it is too crowded and access to the toilet annex would be difficult.

During the peak season (which runs to late Oct.) there will be Chateau sleepers run if the number of Manor sleepers exceeds nine, which is usually the case.

From my observations, the sleeping car line numbers are:
110, 111, 112 (Manor sleepers)
Skyline Activity car & diner
113, 114, 115 (Manor sleepers)
116, 117, 118 (Chateau sleepers)*
Skyline Activity car/diner
120, 121, 122 (Manor sleepers)
139 (Park car)

* There have been a few trains with fewer sleepers than these, i.e. some or all of the cars between 115 to 118 were not operated. If a train is exceptionally long there can be more Chateau sleepers following car 118. Their numbers would be 119, 123, 124, etc. Sometimes (usually in May and September) the train can be up to 30 cars long, so there would be a third Skyline and diner operated in the middle of the train, usually after car 118.

As for hotels in Toronto, the most convenient is Fairmont's (formerly known as Canadian Pacific Hotels') Royal York, directly across the street from Union Station. A more modestly priced hotel nearby is the Strathcona, which offers special rates for VIA passengers.

OTP is fairly good, but as in any long distance train it would be a good idea to leave yourself plenty of time in Vancouver for a connection. On my last few trips into Vancouver, I have arrived early. But there is a slim possibility of being a half day late or even more. There is an airport bus from the Vancouver station, which also doubles as the intercity bus terminal.

Thanks for the info - called VIA Rail today and no F sleepers - at least in Bedroom B it appears that the lower berth can be down and a chair can be set up and not interfere with the door to the annex.
The only consist I was able to find for train 1 was a winter trip with only 3 sleepers, hence the following questions.
Where will the dining car be - in front of all the sleepers? Will there be more than one?
Are there more Skyline cars in the consist besides the ones between the sleepers? VIA's web site says the Skyline car is available to all but the Park car is "usually reserved for the exclusive use of passengers travelling in First Class".
I know this is a round about way to get from Boston to LA but having done it three times in the last three years, I'm Amtraked out - really looking forward to experiencing The Canadian - hope it will be like the Twentieth Century Limited in North by Northwest.

hcm48 wrote:The only consist I was able to find for train 1 was a winter trip with only 3 sleepers, hence the following questions.
Where will the dining car be - in front of all the sleepers? Will there be more than one?
Are there more Skyline cars in the consist besides the ones between the sleepers?

Here are a couple more examples of consists for VIA train #1 from last year (courtesy of Branchline):

Sep 20, 2005:

• 3 F40PH-2s, 1 baggage, 2 coaches, Skyline, 3 Manors, Skyline, diner, 6 Manors, Skyline, diner, 6 Chateaux, Skyline, diner, 3 Manors, and 1 Park.
• 2 locomotives, 1 baggage, 2 coaches, 4 Skylines, 3 diners, 12 Manors, 6 Chateaux, 1 Park = 29 cars in total.

Oct 13, 2005:

• 2 F40PH-2s, 1 baggage, 2 coaches, Skyline, 3 Manors, Skyline, diner, 3 Manors, Skyline, diner, 3 Manors, and the Park.
• 2 locomotives, 1 baggage, 2 coaches, 3 Skylines, 2 diners, 9 Manors, 1 Park = 18 cars in total.

Also, the Skyline car behind the coaches usually provides dining car services.

I've been averaging about 3 trips per year on the Canadian. I've also travelled extensively on Amtrak, but lately, I find myself turning to Canada for vacations and utilizing what limited train service they have - VIA's Canadian particuarly.

I've never been late into Vancouver. I have been three hours late into Toronto though - but this involved travelling through Ontario during forest fires at reduced speeds (1 hour delay) and a car that collided with the train delaying us about 2 hours. So two unfortunate and unsual events.

My two late January and mid-February trip had approximately the following consist:

2 coaches
Skyline/Dome Car (for coach and sleeper passengers)
Diner (for coach and sleeper passengers)
3-4 Manor Sleepers (3 sleepers were added in Jasper for the run to Vancover)
Park Car

This was very much the off season - and more enjoyable as it was less crowded, more intimate etc.

I always try to get a sleeper closer to the Park Car, as that's where I spend most of my time. Lounge downstairs (with bar area) and then the dome upstairs). Even during peak season, when there are more sleepers, I try to get a sleeper closer to the Park Car.

In Toronto, I also prefer the Fairmont Royal York Hotel - right across the street from the train station.

This train is amazing to take in different seasons. I've yet to determine if I like the summer over winter season. Totally different experience when its snow from Toronto all the way across Canada! Course last year, Toronto to Winnipeg portion of the trip had more snow than the Edmonton to Vancouver portion. Seemed to be a lighter snow season in the Canadian mountains last year - or perhaps just bad timing on my part with the snow. But Ontario and Prairies were loaded with snow!

The only time I am in my bedroom while aboard the Canadian is at night - for sleeping or late night reading etc. Other than that I'll either be in the diner or Park Car. Park Car can be quite socialable (with the right crowd) in the Bullet Lounge at night!

Bedroom F in the Manor series - you definitely get more room, but I've never had a need to have chairs up while bed is down. Keep in mind that the Park Car does not have a shower. I usually try to get booked in a sleeper directly adjacent to the Park Car.

hcm48 wrote:Thanks for the info - called VIA Rail today and no F sleepers - at least in Bedroom B it appears that the lower berth can be down and a chair can be set up and not interfere with the door to the annex.
The only consist I was able to find for train 1 was a winter trip with only 3 sleepers, hence the following questions.
Where will the dining car be - in front of all the sleepers? Will there be more than one?
Are there more Skyline cars in the consist besides the ones between the sleepers? VIA's web site says the Skyline car is available to all but the Park car is "usually reserved for the exclusive use of passengers travelling in First Class".
I know this is a round about way to get from Boston to LA but having done it three times in the last three years, I'm Amtraked out - really looking forward to experiencing The Canadian - hope it will be like the Twentieth Century Limited in North by Northwest.

Bedroom B is the same size as all other bedrooms - except the previously noted "F" - and it will be impractical or impossible to put a chair up with the lower bed down. I saw someone do it once and the chair became wedged between the bed and the bulkhead. Bedroom "B" in a Park or Chateau sleeper has one advantage over those in Manor cars: it cannot be made en suite with the adjoining bedroom and therefore has a thicker bulkhead and is therefore more private. You can easily become tired of other peoples' conversations or snoring, etc., so unless splurging on a drawing room (triple bedroom) "B" is the one to take. (If you can get "F" it is worth the risk of noisy neighbours.) You said you were travelling in September, so the train will be very long. Whether winter or summer, the three sleepers between the diner and Park car are 120, 121 & 122 (or 220, etc. for eastbound trains.) There is no first class Skyline car in the winter unless the train is unusually long to accommodate tour groups.

The coach class Skyline car operates as a lounge in the off-season, but in peak season or when it is extra-busy in winter the large rear section with tables will be in use as a diner for coach passengers.

Most of my travels on the Canadian are in off-peak times due to the high fares in summer. I only travel in peak season when using VIA Preference points. The only aspect of the winter Canadian I don't enjoy is the lack of daylight. In January, for example, on the more northerly portion of the trip the only light is from 9:00 to 4:00, which means all meals except lunch are taken in darkness.

Thanks for all the input - have managed to get a bedroom in the Park Car with the assistance of the very helpful people in reservations. Not too worried about the trek to the next car for a shower - good exercise. Travelling west will add an extra hour of sleep so the activity in the lounges won't be a problem - going east though, I'd probably not want to be in the Park Car having to lose an hour every night.

Been googling the web to try and find info on gratuities on the Canadian with no success - I'm quite comfortable with the "suggested" amounts on Amtrak - a buck or two for breakfast and lunch, more for dinner (approx 20 % of the food bill) and five bucks a night for the sleeping car attendant, assuming the attendant does not disappear (as has happened on Amtrak).

Are these appropriate amounts? Any tips (pun intended) greatly appreciated.

The mystery about bedroom "F" is that it was orignally what was called a "compartment", not a "double bedroom."

A compartment was a larger more expensive room from the "old days" when that equipment was built, about 1954. For reaons of simplified reservations, I suppose, VIA did not want to maintain that distinction so it sells the compartment as a bedroom.

I understand that in the early days of Amtrak, the same thing happened.

Those former Canadian Pacific cars were originally built with: 4 sections, 5 double bedrooms, one compartment and 4 roomettes. .

One section has now been converted to thie shower. So the cars now have 3 sections, 6 double bedrooms and 4 roomettes.

Isn't Bedroom D in the Chateau cars also a compartment?

I don't think Bedroom D on the Chateau cars were once considered compartments, due to the fact that these were the cars that carried Bedroom A as a Triple Bedroom (Drawing Room). VIA still bills this as a Triple Bedroom.

Car diagram sure looks like Chateau D is same configuration as Manor F, but I will cede to the experts.

I have also seen a diagram in which "D" loked bigger than the other bedrooms, but in the current National Timetable it doesn't.

As a point of interest, in the latter years of CPR operation of The Canadian, the designation "compartment" for "F" was dropped and the fares reduced to the regular bedroom level. The rascals also removed the third chair. Anyone with the old CPR brochures will see the blurb that: "compartments have extra chairs for entertaining."

For a while in the mid-1990s, VIA designated the former compartments as "master bedrooms" and charged a 10% supplement. Although there was no shortage of willing passengers, after a few years they dropped the surcharge. Even when charging extra, VIA did not put the third chair in. On a couple of trips when we had "F" a friendly attendant borrowed a chair from the Skyline car. One of the things I really like about Renaissance bedrooms (in addition to the private shower) is the sofa which makes it more convenient to have friends in for pre-dinner cocktails.