"Re-filling" New T Farecards

Does anyone in Boston know whether the T's new Charlie Fare Cards will offer users the convenience of having their cards automatically "re-filled" by charging their debit or credit card whenever the stored value on their Charlie Card falls below, let's say, ten dollars?

I live in Chicago, and use the CTA's new Chicago Card Plus, which does just that: it charges my credit card $60.00 - then, when the stored value remaining on my card falls to $10.00, the Chicago Card Plus system automatically charges another $60.00 to my credit card and re-fills my card's stored value without my having to do anything.

Also, each time my card is re-filled, I get an e-mail from the CTA letting me know that my credit card has been once again charged.

This way, I never have to worry about having enough stored value remaining on my Chicago Card Plus, and I never have to go out of my way to "re-fill" it at card-money machines in el or subway stations. (The plain-vanilla Chicago Card does require everyone to manually "re-fill" it whenever it runs low on or completely out of stored value.)

I hope Boston's new "Charlie Card" is going to provide transit riders with this same excellent convenience.

trolleyguy wrote:Does anyone in Boston know whether the T's new Charlie Fare Cards will offer users the convenience of having their cards automatically "re-filled" by charging their debit or credit card whenever the stored value on their Charlie Card falls below, let's say, ten dollars?

I live in Chicago, and use the CTA's new Chicago Card Plus, which does just that: it charges my credit card $60.00 - then, when the stored value remaining on my card falls to $10.00, the Chicago Card Plus system automatically charges another $60.00 to my credit card and re-fills my card's stored value without my having to do anything.

Also, each time my card is re-filled, I get an e-mail from the CTA letting me know that my credit card has been once again charged.

This way, I never have to worry about having enough stored value remaining on my Chicago Card Plus, and I never have to go out of my way to "re-fill" it at card-money machines in el or subway stations. (The plain-vanilla Chicago Card does require everyone to manually "re-fill" it whenever it runs low on or completely out of stored value.)

I hope Boston's new "Charlie Card" is going to provide transit riders with this same excellent convenience.

Yes, the CharlieCard will be able to be refilled online sometime after it has been released. While the T has been shy on it's details, I know they plan on offering an account based system where you can add value or renew a pass online. Also I'm hoping they'll do something like Washington's Metro where employers who offer passes as a benefit can just send the MBTA a list of card numbers online and they are automatically reloaded for the next month (instead of having to buy it yourself and get reimbursed)

You can already reload a CharlieTicket, although in reality it actually prints you a new one, but at least you get to keep the existing value without having several cards.

JS

Well, I would assume so, there were talks of being able to refil it online (and vs each end user having a smart card writer, and software, which can be a big security issue)

And since it is all networked, id ASSUME so (a technical standpoint, it would be simple to do, possibly updating it w/ the correct value)

Which that would be alot safer, as if say the Database says Card 2242 has $0 on it, its filled online, so the DB shows $30, but the card $0, it would charge the fare (say 1.25) and update the card from $0 to $28.75

Which would also work if the DB stores $0 for a card, but someone illegally reprograms the card, puts $40 on it, the machine would update the card back to $0, and either blacklist the card, report it to an operator etc (without letting the person in)

But short answer, im saying yes!

CJ wrote:Well, I would assume so, there were talks of being able to refil it online (and vs each end user having a smart card writer, and software, which can be a big security issue)

And since it is all networked, id ASSUME so (a technical standpoint, it would be simple to do, possibly updating it w/ the correct value)

Which that would be alot safer, as if say the Database says Card 2242 has $0 on it, its filled online, so the DB shows $30, but the card $0, it would charge the fare (say 1.25) and update the card from $0 to $28.75

Which would also work if the DB stores $0 for a card, but someone illegally reprograms the card, puts $40 on it, the machine would update the card back to $0, and either blacklist the card, report it to an operator etc (without letting the person in)

But short answer, im saying yes!

The new AFC system does have a comprehensive blocking option built in that can block a card from not only the networked faregates but also the fareboxes on the green line and busses. These (I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere) update via a wireless network when they are in their "home" location (rail yard or bus depot).

The question really becomes if you load something online wirelessly and you then try to use it on a farebox, what happens? Smart card readers would be cost prohibitive to give out/sell. I'm guessing each night a list of new transactions would be uploaded to the fareboxes and then compared against the value on the card when you use it? Once the system detects that a card has been updated, it could be taken off the fareboxes that night, so the database wouldn't have to get that big.

Not sure. If this topic continues I think it should be moved into the 2006 AFC thread already opened.

JS

You do make a good point, and it would depend when the system was updated (if you got a free ride). However also with the depots/bus stations, I would atleast have them update at large stations (ie park street etc..) and also at the last stops (heath street etc..)

Issue with that is, the (what im assuming) limited space, as one can only block so many cards (as this would only be an issue on buses/green line trolleys), however I am betting the MBTA is gambling that nobody would hack there cards, so that in itself does help.

But if a card was run on a Trolley etc.., then checked against a master DB, and saw it was invalid, it would probably be added to a 'master blacklist' database, in where each train station etc.. would check each fare card against the DB before access is allowed.

However, the MBTA could (big COULD here), go WIFI throughout the system (possibly piggybacking on the future CELL network underground), which would let the check happen in real time. (only way I see this is if there is a huge amount of illegal farecards, which would need them checked all the time)

In response to using a legitimate card, I think the MBTA would get way too much slack if the cards did not work 'first time' after an online load, making an auto-update like i said above more realistic, but alot more expensive.

Yeah, this might wanna get merged into the AFC thread, but all of this (wifi throughout the system, for the fareboxes only), would only happen if the charliecard was hacked, and smartcards are not just easially reprogrammed, it can take a lot of $$$ (not to mention its illegal)

My original post about Boston's Charlie Card and its hoped-for parallel to CTA's Chicago Card Plus with its feature of automatically "re-filling" itself by debiting my credit card has, it seems to me, caused some confusion among you very fine contributors here. The confusion consists in the difference between refilling, let's say, your Charlie Card, by going online and commanding that it be refilled from an account of your choosing versus having it done automatically, as my Chicago Card Plus does. The former scenario requires that you have to keep track of the balance remaining on your transit card and going on-line yourself to refill it.

My original question about the Charlie Card referred instead to my Chicago Card Plus and its ability to automatically "refill" itself from my credit card (whose number and expiry date I provided to the Chicago Transit Authority when I first applied for the card). Once the CTA approved my application for the Chicago Card Plus (I had to pay the CTA a one-time fee of $5.00 to obtain the card), they mailed me my card, with $60.00 in stored fare value charged to my credit card already on it, and I was able to immediately start using it.

The fare machines on buses and at el and subway station turnstiles automatically read the fare value stored on my card and deduct the amount needed at the moment. The CTA has a system which "knows" when the stored value remaining on my Chicago Card Plus has fallen below $10.00 and my credit card is once again automatically charged. I never have to go on-line myself to determine the value remaining on my card, or to refill it.

It is THIS AUTOMATIC VALUE-REPLENISHMENT FEATURE which I hope Bostonians using Charlie Cards are going to be able to benefit from.

In Chicago, these cards make boarding buses much faster, and many more people simply now press their cards against a card-reader on the farebox without even having to remove them from their wallets, purses, or billfolds. Lines of people waiting to stuff dollar bills or cash into fareboxes and turnstiles have diminished considerably in the year since the Chicago Card and Chicago Card Plus were first introduced, and as a consequence service speed has improved due to less time waiting at stops while people fumble with their change.

The more convenient the fare-card, the more "user-friendly" transit will become, and god only knows how badly public transit needs to be made more user-friendly and convenient in order to attract today's sophisticated car-drivers out of their chariots and onto public transit. (Clean, punctual trains and buses help immeasurably, too!)

The Charlie Card will have an option for auto loading as is done in Chicago. Car drivers here in MA are already familiar with this process with Fast Lane accounts for toll roads, bridges and tunnels.

I'd guess for non-auto filling of a Charlie Card online, there will be a 24 hr. (or some other time limit) disclaimer to post to your account. In that case, you're better off reloading at least a little money at a vending machine in the station, or the farebox on the bus/trolley, enough to get you though the day.

Whoa, hold on, time out. You applied for a Chicago Card Plus? As in you had to be approved? As in they run a credit check? For riding the subway? Please tell me I'm wrong on this one.

SbooX wrote:Whoa, hold on, time out. You applied for a Chicago Card Plus? As in you had to be approved? As in they run a credit check? For riding the subway? Please tell me I'm wrong on this one.

No you don't have to be approved and have a credit check. He means apply because you have to fill out a form and get it sent to you in the mail. As long as you have a valid credit card or debit card you can get a Chicago Card Plus. If you don't have these you can just get a plain Chicago Card which you can refill at the station vending machines. You can "apply" for one here https://www.chicago-card.com/cc/Buy1.aspx. You can get it for free untill the end of this month, after that they are $5. I got one just for the hell of it and my brother lives in Chicago so I can use it next time I visit him.

p.s. all the info you could ever want about the Chicago Card and the Chicago Card Plus can be found at http://www.chicago-card.com.

OK, thats a relief. Thanks for clearing that up. I was just envisioning a nighmarish future world where only the rich can afford to drive cars, or ride public transit...

Maybe I should stop being so paranoid. Nah.

Refilling the Charlie fare tickets maybe easy, but you would never know it by the number of used tickets that people are leaving on the “Orange” line cars. I checked a few of the tickets recently and they were all $1.25. Customers are just not bothering to re-fill the tickets. So now the MBTA is going to have to pick up more trash along with the old newspapers and dunkin doughnut coffee cups.

Ed Canney wrote:Refilling the Charlie fare tickets maybe easy, but you would never know it by the number of used tickets that people are leaving on the “Orange” line cars. I checked a few of the tickets recently and they were all $1.25. Customers are just not bothering to re-fill the tickets. So now the MBTA is going to have to pick up more trash along with the old newspapers and dunkin doughnut coffee cups.

The problem isn't just people not refilling the cards but also not putting more then one ride on at a time as well.

Ed Canney wrote:Refilling the Charlie fare tickets maybe easy, but you would never know it by the number of used tickets that people are leaving on the “Orange” line cars. I checked a few of the tickets recently and they were all $1.25. Customers are just not bothering to re-fill the tickets. So now the MBTA is going to have to pick up more trash along with the old newspapers and dunkin doughnut coffee cups.

That's not totally unexpected. The last time I went to a converted station was about a month ago (Lechmere), and the last time before that was about two months earlier (Aquarium). Why should I, or someone in a similar situation, load up a CharlieTicket when it's likely that I'm not going to use it again for a long time?

Once they're accepted systemwide, and riders need to use them more than once in a while, people will start putting more money on them.

That's not to say the littering isn't rude, though. How hard is it to keep the ticket in your pocket until you reach a trash can?

Ed Canney wrote:Refilling the Charlie fare tickets maybe easy, but you would never know it by the number of used tickets that people are leaving on the “Orange” line cars. I checked a few of the tickets recently and they were all $1.25. Customers are just not bothering to re-fill the tickets. So now the MBTA is going to have to pick up more trash along with the old newspapers and dunkin doughnut coffee cups.

The thing I still wonder is even though you can refill the card, it actually just eats the old one and prints you a new one. Yes thats better than litter on the floor but it still isn't very environmentally friendly. My guess is that since they are going to push for most riders to have a CharlieCard they aren't worried as much about the occasional CharlieTicket user.

JS

Speaking of litter does anyone know if the new fareboxes "eat" your CharlieTicket when it runs out of money?