from the archive: Trip Report - C2C - Amtrak and VIA Rail

JP1822 Member wrote: You Canadians really know how to operate Trains! Although I would have loved to taken the original Canadian Pacific Route of the Canadian, the Rocky Mountaineer portion was really great. I was glued to the the window on all the Canadian trips I took on this report. My trip report is below (which I also posted on teh Amtrak forum).

I had made reference of a recent long distance Amtrak report I took in other forums, and now, here is the full report. In the spring I usually take a two-week vacation, often utilizing Amtrak long distance trains to my destinations. This was the first time though, that I utilized multiple trains. Usually I just take one or two. Been on all the transcontinentals in the States except for the Sunset Limited. This trip involved Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada.

Took the train up to Toronto, then VIA's Canadian to Jasper, VIA's Skeena to Prince Rupert, the Rocky Mountaineer, Amtrak Cascade service to Seattle and return back to the East Coast on the Empire Builder and Capitol Limited. I some how coordinated to do this trip in 19 days total. For the Canada portion on got on and off at various stops - traveled by train for two to three, then off for two to three then back on the train etc. So here it goes.

I left out of NYP on the Maple Lead bound for Toronto. I traveled in business class, an old Amtrak club car that was quite comfortable compared to others. Crew was very friendly and we got lots of priority over the freight traffic. We were on-time the whole way up to the border crossing. We traveled mostly on the eastbound track between Schenectady and Buffalo and I must say the track appeared to be much smoother than I had experienced previously on the Lake Shore Limited. Smooth ride and ontime performance was nice. Saw the new Turboliners hanging around in Albany - as well as the F40's on a side track that seem to be dwindling in number as they are being sold off I guess. We passed what I believe was the old NYC Buffalo station. I was mortified with the condition of this station. Many tracks leading to a fallen down train station. The architecture must have been amazing and I can only imagine its glory days. It's a real shame that this has not been revitalized for some purpose (hotel, mall, museum, bus/train/transportation depot). This structure must have been located maybe a mile or so before we got to the Buffalo-Exchange Station, which was very unappealing. Customs boarded on the American side and I had an interesting view of the classification yard up there and got to watch as a train consist being assembled - never real saw this in operation. Customs went pretty well and then we had Canadian customs on the other side, which went off smoothly too. Niagara Falls Station on the Canadian side was much nicer than the American station. We seemed to have wasted a lot of time at the customs stop. Customs was done quite early but we were held for timetable reasons. The Maple Leaf and Adirondack custom stops should try to implement procedures I experienced on the Amtrak Cascade Vancouver-Seattle train. Stop for customs was minimal and efficient. VIA crew boarded in Niagara Falls and the café car was open for less than an hour - seemed like a real waste as there was hardly any food left for sale. VIA crew was also very friendly.

After leaving Grimsby, Ontario the engine died. We were stuck on the tracks for about an hour and 45 minutes. The engineer had to contact the Chicago maintenance facility to figure out what to do. This process was not handled too efficiently in my opinion. There were other events that transpired but I will not digress. The conductor kept telling the engineer to get another engine sent down from Toronto, as we were not too far from our final destination. Stubborness I guess persisted, as they some how got the engine going again and finally arrived into Toronto around 9:30 p.m. To top it off, a lady got locked in the bathroom while our engine died. The lock broke. Conductor and other passengers could not pry it open. They called the local fire company after efforts failed to open it. Finally the engineer came back with a crowbar and got her out. It was a really small bathroom and I was surprised the mirror on the interior did not break causing an injury to the passenger locked inside. This made the VIA staff comment that Amtrak constantly gives the Maple Leaf and International poorly maintained equipment. The lounge car attendant (who has worked on the International) claims Amtrak runs the stuff until the wheels start coming off. We did have an older consist. We got free food during the breakdown and VIA said that they would refund our tickets for the Canadian leg. Haven't filed for my refund.

Overnight in Toronto and then boarded the Canadian. The Canadian was absolutely great - the domes, the food, the lounges, the Park Car, the Skyline cars, bedrooms - topped with superior onboard service (much better than I have ever experienced on Amtrak). One of the best trains I have ever been on. Cost a fortune though. I had a double bedroom just for the extra space as I needed to get some work done. The beds were extra comfortable. Amtrak could learn some onboard pointers from VIA. We had about 30 cars in our Canadian consist - three coaches, two diners, three skyline cars, one park car, and the remainder were sleepers. Far more sleepers than I have ever seen on a train. Mix of ages and types of people on the train - someone told me I would only see rich old folks on the Canadian. I didn't think that was totally true. Did not see too many families though. Course, I was traveling in May, the start of the peak season.

Spent a couple of days in Jasper and then boarded the Skeena up to Prince Rupert. Again, excellent onboard service. On both the Canadian and Skeena I had route maps, onboard commentary about sites we were passing, the crew pointing out animals to us (saw lots of bears, cubs, elk, moose, mule deer right from the train). I was in Totem class on the Skeena where you get meal service and accommodations in the newly acquired Panorama Dome car, which VIA had just purchased from the defunct BC Rail. This car was fantastic. Amazingly comfortable seats, good food, and glass that went from the armrest all the way up and around to the other side. It was a single level car. Only a couple of years old too. Scenery again was phenomenal as was the Canadian.

Flew from Prince Rupert to Vancouver, over to Victoria and then back to Vancouver. Spent a few days in each city. In Vancouver I boarded the Rocky Mountaineer to Banff. Rocky Mountaineer is a totally different venue from both Amtrak and VIA Rail. It's probably not fair to compare the Rocky Mountaineer to the other services I was on, but the Rocky Mountaineer was a first class operation. I splurged again and took gold leaf service up in the bi-level dome car. Great viewing. Animals spotted from the train, great food, constant commentary from the crew, pampered the entire time. I would hope so though for the price I paid!

Eventually I made it back to Vancouver to take the Amtrak Cascade Service to Seattle. I loved the Talgos on this route. My comments for this Amtrak service I had posted on the "Send the Talgos Home - RENFE Needs a Set ASAP" forum. I think the Amtrak Cascade route could be a model for other Amtrak corridor service (similar to the Downeaster). On the Amtrak system, I have liked Acela Express and Pacific Surfliners the best - Talgos are probably next on the list. I didn't think I would like the Talgos at all. Changed my tune on that.

I then boarded the Empire Builder after spending time in Seattle. The trip was a little down here from well. I have always learned to be patient and allow plenty of time for unexpected delays when traveling on Amtrak. I met several passengers on VIA Rail who had nothing to say but negative comments about Amtrak. I had dinner with three different travel agents who stated they avoid booking people on Amtrak as they cannot depend on their service. I was shocked with some of the stories I head. For the record, I am an Amtrak supporter and tried to communicate the difficulty Amtrak has been facing. But I gave up after hearing some stories. Oh - and all the VIA train's I was on - they were no more than 15 minutes late. And if they were, they had to file a report and answer to the regional director. The whole process of being late appeared to be better monitored than Amtrak - accountability. I have heard from other passengers on the VIA trains that timekeeping is held top on the list. My parents were vacationing in Seattle. I have not been on a "family vacation" since I was a teenager and vowed I would never go again, but I joined up with for the journey back East. It was just the three of us.

Our Seattle sleeper bedroom was a renovated Superliner I - and a good job they did on renovating the inside I must say. I have been on other renovated Superliner I's, but this one was much better. Seems as if it may have been recently done. The other Seattle sleeper seemed to be in the same kind of shape (two Seattle sleepers and one Portland sleeper). My mother claimed her room was not cleaned very well. I didn't notice that kind of detail though. However I did notice immediately that the A/C in our deluxe section was broken (only the sleepers in the standard bedrooms had A/C). It was already very uncomfortable and I am a person who prefers cold weather over warm weather. I knew the prairies were ahead of us so it was just going to get hotter! We also had adjoining rooms and wanted to open the doors up between the rooms during the day. I called the attendant up to the room and asked what the problem was and if they were going to try to fix the A/C before leaving or perhaps in Spokane. I also asked why they hadn't try and fix it when the train came into Seattle, as it was noted upon arrival into Seattle the A/C had failed on the last leg in. It was clear that someone dropped the ball on this. The attendant didn't deal with the complaints from me and other passengers alone - he called his supervisor. The sleepers were booked (Seattle and Portland sections) so there was no changing bedrooms. However, the supervisor tried to shut us up by saying there would be vacancy on the Portland sleeper joining us in Spokane. I snuck off and called the reservation desk and called that bluff. I asked if any consideration was given to buying small fans to place in the rooms. This would also help ventilate some A/C from the other half of the car down to our section. He said no they didn't give that any thought. I asked if they could call ahead to Edmonds and have them bring some fans onboard. Low and behold he took my suggestion. My father had a heart condition and there were severally other elderly couples on board. My father went ballistic and I played the role of the diplomat. Once the fans were onboard, the car did get much more comfortable and tolerable in our section. Then it appeared that no one had a key to open the door between our rooms. I had specifically requested this upon making the booking and when I checked into Seattle - otherwise I would have gotten a standard bedroom, rather than paying the price for two deluxe sleepers for three people. The extra day-time room was more for my parents benefit. The supervisor, conductor, and attendant promised to find a key before we left Seattle. Well guess what, we arrived into Chicago with no key found. My father had never experienced Amtrak before, so he was on the "never again" bandwagon. Despite explaining the turmoils of Amtrak, he didn't care.

Out of all my Amtrak's travels, this was the first time I was really pissed - mainly due to the lying and incompetency of the service crew and supervisor. Also - I hope the planned Seattle station renovation can get off the ground soon. This could be a great terminal. Restoration was advertised to be complete in early 2003, but I don't think they have even started on it. I did like the expanded menu on the Empire Builder - much better than the old standard menus.

I have always enjoyed the scenery on the Empire Builder, which I did on this trip as well. Cascade Range, Glacier National Park, Montana, Wisconsin Delles - all great. However, this is the first time I was on the Empire Builder without a route map - how expensive could this be? For all VIA trains, they have route maps on the train and also make them available on the website. Why couldn't Amtrak do the same if it is that costly to reproduce them on paper. No commentary by the onboard crew like VIA. I realize VIA is more tourist oriented, but some of this stuff is simple value added service that helps make the experience more enjoyable. The Lounge Car attendant had a poor attitude. Could not hear any of the station announcements from my car (and the volume was turned up). A dinging noise was also heard coming from the speaker that made going to sleep really annoying. Attendant was pretty good - although he spent a good amount of time in the Lounge Car. No announcements regarding delays. For the most part we were not sitting on sidings for too long, but we crawled through some sections and at one time - up to an hour late. And finally, for the last two hours - the toilets were non-functioning. But we made up time and arrived into Chicago Union Station on time - and the delay for unloading the mail cars was minimal. Thank goodness for this reversal - at last.

We were the first long distance passenger train in from the West to Chicago - CA Zephyr was over fours late, Southwest Chief about three hours and the Texas Eagle was no better. I had a hunch the Empire Builder would be transformed into the Capitol Limited I was to board at 5:35 p.m. I dreaded getting the same sleeper car and being delayed due to the other late transcontinentals. Well one out of two of these came true. We did get the same consist, but they switched out our broken sleeper from the Empire Builder and we got the Texas Eagle sleeper. This sleeper was really in bad shape - an old Superliner I that was minimally cleaned. But it was better than a non-air ventilated room. We made the best of it, but for the price of deluxe sleepers, it kills me as to what you can get stuck with. They were able to open the doors between our rooms this time. And as I suspected, we were delayed to wait for the Texas Eagle and Southwest Chief. We didn't wait for the CA Zephyr that was due at 8:00 p.m. by the time we finally pulled out of Chicago at 7:20 p.m. The Lake Shore Limited pulled out ahead of us at 7:10 p.m. These delayed eastbound Chicago departures seem to be commonplace with the new schedules. Although I like the new timetable for the Capitol Limited, Lake Shore Limited, and the transcontinentals into Chicago, it appears eastbound time keeping of the Southwest Chief, CA Zephyr, and even the Empire Builder appear to be having problems, and thus delaying departures out of Chicago to the East Coast. The Capitol Limited has been arriving into Washington 2 to 5 hours late (and some times later). I say put these late train passengers on the Three Rivers, which departs Chicago at 10:30 p.m. and may be suffering from patronage due to this late departure - course that would mean having some extra Viewliners available and a full service diner perhaps. Might avoid the costly overnight stays in hotels, further delays etc. Couldn't they reshuffle a Viewliner from the Cardinal and transfer it back down to Washington or something for redeployment).

We rolled along pretty well on the Capitol Limited - mail cars were hitched up prior to boarding so we didn't delay in the Chicago yard after boarding. I complained to Amtrak about this policy before, as I think many others have too - including Gunn himself. Finally glad some solution has been made to deal with this issue. Why do they have to put the mail cars on the back though? Couldn't they go up in the front with the baggage car and save the sleeping car passengers from the engine horn all night and avoid the long trek from the rear to the front of the train when boarding at Chicago Union Station? Different menu than the Empire Builder, which was great. Onboard service was great in the dining car and our sleeping car attendant was really on the ball. And - we had a route map for the Capitol Limited! Little outdated but it added a nice touch. The last time I was on the Capitol Limited we had the Southwest Chief route map - it really added confusion and led to interesting dinner discussions. In Toledo, we overtook the Lake Shore Limited - which I thought was kinda odd. We were in Toledo for at least a half hour (more than what was allotted). How hard it is it to hook up one mail car that was waiting for us on the siding and board the passengers - all 20 or so that got on! I didn't think the Lake Shore Limited picked up mail cars at Toledo, so why did we get dispatched ahead of it? We were at least two hours down by the time we reached Toledo. And no announcements apologizing for the delays for the entire trip. We were given some bogus reason for the delay at Chicago Union Station.

We made up an hour by the time we reached Pittsburgh! I considered the night before getting off at Pittsburgh and taking the Pennsylvanian back to the East Coast, but since we made up an hour and the timetable is padded after Pittsburgh, I went back to bed and decided to ride it out. Well we wasted 45 minutes in Pittsburgh for some unknown reason - putting as back in the two late mark. Cumberland Valley scenery was nice, which is why I prefer the Capitol Limited over the Three Rivers and Lake Shore (plus other reasons). However, we crawled down portions of CSX track. They debated serving us lunch, but didn't. Just breakfast. So we ate lunch in the Lounge Car - which was running out of food. The Lounge Car attendant was very energetic and seemed to love her job. She was very conscious of the passengers and made frequent announcements after 11:00 a.m. to come and grab lunch before it was all gone. The coach car before the Lounge Car absolutely reeked - it smelled bad on the Empire Builder too. The smoking lounge was downstairs I think that was doing it. If wouldn't have been able to sit in this car. We got into Washington DC at 2:45 p.m - over two hour late.

I think I will write a letter regarding some of the problems I encountered on this trip. There were some things that just really ticked me off. Overall, it was a great trip - VIA Rail Canada more enjoyable than Amtrak this time.

Posted 6/6/2003 10:11:00 PM PST

David,Mississauga Member wrote: Thank you for posting this interesting trip report.

If I may, I have just a few comments re: the experiences in Canada. With a small group of seniors, I use the Maple Leaf two or three times a year between Toronto and Niagara Falls, Ont. It is a rather unreliable train, to say the least. Returning from NF to Toronto is particularly risky as one cannot expect the train to arrive from New York on time, although it certianly doesn't cross the border late all of the time. Going from Toronto to NF is usually fairly reliable, but a year and a half ago the Amtrak locomotive developed problems one mile out of Toronto's Union Station. Problems continued on and off and the final 12 miles from St. Catharines to NF was made at little more than walking speed. It took five hours for the 82 mile trip - some kind of record for me! Our group had a rather short visit that day.

I'm glad you enjoyed the Canadian. It may have seemed pricey in May, but the peak-season fares run from June 1 to Oct. 22. This summer, VIA is offering a 25% discount in sleepers if booked by June 19th. Members of the Via Preference programme are being offered a much better deal if they book by mid-July. Although tourism is down all across Canada, the Canadian seems to be doing well. These special deals will help keep the load factor up.

Posted 6/7/2003 6:53:00 AM PST

WRH Member wrote: I'm glad you had a good trip. I have travelled from coast to coast on VIA and Amtrak. There is no comparison. VIA employees certainly have their bad days but they far outrank their Amtrak counterparts in professionalism and courtesy. I remember one trip in a Superliner diner when every day the crew would dump the entire meal in front of passengers at once(salad, main course, and melting ice cream). When I suggested I would like the ice cream after my main course the waiter refused to take it back, turned around and loudly cried "WHOO -A-WHOO-A WHOO A!" Go figure.
I know Amtrak has financial problems but it doesn't cost anything for employees to be civil to their customers. There needs to be a major change in the corporate culture. VIA managed to improve its attitude toward's its customers. Why can't Amtrak?


Posted 6/9/2003 7:28:00 PM PST

ENR3809 Moderator wrote: Glad you enjoyed your trip. One thing, you should have ridden VIA Rail train 199/198 "The Malahat" while you were in Victoria. Trains operate daily leaving Victoria at 08:15 Monday-Saturday arriving back in Victoria from Courtenay, BC at 18:00, leaving Victoria at 12:00 on Sundays and arriving back in Victoria at around 21:40.

Posted 6/15/2003 3:07:00 PM PST

ak hwy Member wrote: Indeed, the Malahat makes for a wonderful trip and in addition to providing an important service overwhelms one with nostalgia. My wife and rode to Courtenay and back on a Sunday last October (same day the Queen was in Victoria, shows you where our priorities lie). Accustomed to the dry mountains here in Colorado, we were amazed at the density and beauty of the vegetation. It was also fun to see the folks who actually came out of their homes to wave as the train went by! Passenger loads ranged from 6 to 40 (lots more intermediate traffic than I expected) that day, a mixture of tourists, students, older folks and parents taking their kids for a train ride.
And speaking of the Canadian, my favorite all-time train trip remains a 1984 ride from Vancouver to Winnipeg.


Posted 6/23/2003 10:54:00 AM PST

cedric Member wrote: The Malahat is great, esp to Qualicum for a day trip instead of all the way to Courtenay. When I rode it in May, one of the Budd cars had just returned from being refurbished the week before and was very nice indeed.

My experience on the cross country trains has actually been the opposite of yours. I took the EB westbound in April and it was never more than 30 mins late, with ontime arrival into Seattle. Crew were very friendly and the restaurant car host invited me to lunch in Seattle. I regularily commute between Vancouver and Boston Bar/North Bend in BC on the Canadian. Not only is the frequency a lot worse than the Empire Builder (3x/week instead of 7x), but I have yet to arrive on time on the Vancouver-North Bend portion ... and it's only a 4 hour trip! Ocassionally, I can't even have diner as the coach diner has not been in use for the past couple of months due to low ridership and coach passengers are entitled only to the last seating in the dining car.... and they've been putting a lot of new crews on whom are not yet efficient. Big draw back IMHO. On a recent run, they didn't load blankets, one of the economy toilets wasn't working, .....

I'm glad that you enjoyed the Rocky Mountaineer. Hope you waved to me when you passed Hell's Gate (I work on the airtram)! Rumor has it that it might not last much longer - the (10 year) contract with VIA expired 3 years ago and VIA is planning to renovate the equipment coming off the Ocean for a Calgary - Vancouver run within the next 4 years. This includes holding tanks and could be extended all the way to Toronto on the CP lines. Stay tuned.

As for the Maple Leaf, (and International), a customs arrangement similar to the Cascades is not possible. The Cascades only has one stop in Canada (Vancouver) whereas the above are local trains once they cross the border. You are correct regarding equipment, although the International is upgraded to Superliner Cars during the winter. In fact, when I took the Empire Builder, the menu from the International was still posted in the smoking lounge (which can double as a cafeteria).

Posted 7/3/2003 1:09:00 AM PST

ENR3809 Moderator wrote: Cedric, you are correct. If you want to make a day trip on the Malahat, only go as far north as Qualicum Beach With 2 hours between the northbound and southbound trains, you'll get ample time to get lunch and explore Qualicum Beach. Only go to Courtenay if you are a hardcore railfan and like riding the RDC's, or you are actually getting off at Courtenay.

Posted 7/7/2003 4:20:00 PM PST

JP1822 Member wrote: I was supposed to take the ferry from Prince Rupert to Port Hardy and then bus/car to Courtenay to pickup the Malahat to Victoria. The ferry I was supposed to take got messed up and I had to fly from Prince Rupert down to Vancouver/Victoria. Hope to squeeze in a trip on the Malahat on my vacation to Alaska!


Posted 7/12/2003 10:39:00 PM PST

ENR3809 Moderator wrote: If you're going to ride it from Victoria to Courtenay and return you'll want to sit on the right side of the train coming out of Victoria and the left side leaving Courtenay, most of the scenery is on that side.

Posted 7/15/2003 11:54:00 AM PST