MP-54 retirement

Frank: "Ping pong" was a term applied specifically to the unpowered steam coaches hauled by locomotives. The cars would bounce up and down against each other, in response to track conditions. They would make a sound characterized as "ping-pong".
MU MP54's were similar in appearance, but were not referred to as "pings". Now, how fast could they travel? I can't really give you a specific. but they proably could top out at around 60mph. In service, they rarely cruised above 50 mph. Another measure of speed includes the mass of the cars. Remember the photographs of the 1950 wrecks at Richmond Hill and Rockville Center? The speed was not especially fast, but the mass, speed, and operating traction motors drove cars right through others that were stationary.
Being made of steel rather than fiberglass, aluminum, and a stainless shell, once they got moving, they were formidible forces. And consider this; they lasted for almost 3/4 of a century in grueling, daily service.

According to Felix Reifschneider's 1925 LIRR history, the class MP54 cars had a top speed of 55 mph.

Dave Keller

Given the accel/decel profile of 'em, the nonexistant top speed, etc, I doubt either the RVC or Richmond accidents happened at any sizeable number of MPH.

It was seen even before WWII that the MP-54s came apart even in slow speed collisions.

They were pretty much deathtraps in a collision. It's a good thing they couldn't go fast - they were bad enough at slow speeds in accidents. I believe the DD-1 Vs MP-54 at Port Washington was estimated to be barely 15mph, yet the front 1/2 of the first car was virtually destroyed.

The closing speeds at RVC weren't likely high, yet one car ended up split in 1/2, upside down in a ditch, and a few other cars were split too.

Rockville Centre and Richmond Hill were two different types of collisions, as well.

Richmond Hill was a "rear-ender" and the rear train could not have gotten up to too much of a speed after having just stopped and proceeded. He collided head end into rear end of the stopped train, with sufficient oomph to push the stopped train with locked brakes PAST the signal at Metroplitan Avenue!!!

RVC involved two trains heading towards each other on the shared gauntlet track, hence the splitting in half. You had two speeds of two trains headed towards each other increasing the velocity upon impact.

My new book has a shot of a double decker train traversing the gauntlet track at RVC, viewed from the embankment of the grade elimination in progress. A good view of the track configuration that led to the deadly wreck!

Dave Keller

Somebody once mentioned in this group that the MP54 that was "halved" in the RVC wreck was rebuilt, continuing service until the end of the MP54 era. Obviously, the telescoped cars were scrapped immediatly after the wreck cause was determined.

According to Vincent Seyfried's roster in his volume 7, MP54A #1482 was wrecked at RVC.

There's no mention of it being scrapped or rebuilt.

Judging from the photos that exist of the wreck, there would be NO point in rebuilding such a mess!!! The cost of refurbishing that car to meet the proper standards would be like throwing $2,000 into an old truck for repair when Blue Book value is only $500!!

The car was built in 1910, so at the time of the wreck, it was already 40 years old and had seen lots of hard use!!

Dave Keller

One thing bout the rear ender I recall reading somewhere was that LIRR crews were in the habit of coasting through Stop and Proceed signals back then. I don't know how true it is, but it would have added to the thing's speed. In any case, I doubt it was going much faster than 30mph, if that. Those things couldn't accelerate and the top speeds were low. I've heard 55-65 quoted. it would have also mattered what cars were in the consist and how full (they were FULL) they were. I'd imagine high traffic would have depressed the 3rd rail voltage somewhat, and the LIRR did in fact put nonpowered trailers in MU consists back then (seen pics of it).

The MP-54 was a really heavy car - 125,000+ lbs, and they didn't have much power - only 400 or so I think. Most had only one powered truck. One or two dead cars must have made them real dogs, they were pretty slow as it was.

I'd be curious as to how they stacked up Vs other EMUs of the era - I know the PRR MP-54s were just as bad, but the Reading cars were supposed to be a lot faster, as were the NH and Lacawannas, though the Lacawanna stuff didn't top out much faster - it did accelerate better I've heard.

Of course, the Pioneeer IIIs blew them all out of the water - far higher capacity, far higher performance, no increase in HP over the PRR MP-54s.

Many years ago the story of the Richmond Hill crash was told in Trains Magazine by a retired employee who had been on one of the trains involved. He said the train that caused the collision had 8 motorized cars and 4 unpowered trailers, a typical consist. The speed at impact was thought to have been about 30 MPH.

For some great info on the Richmond Hill wreck, visit my friend Joe DeMay's Old Kew Gardens page here:

http://www.oldkewgardens.com/ss-lirr-0650.html

Be sure to click on ALL the links. He's even got one that shows the ICC report with maps, distances, and findings!!

Great stuff, plus photos!

Dave Keller