The Canadian--how long can it be??

On my eastbound trip last fall, it was 30 cars long(three of them deadheads). It had been 21 cars westbound. Just got a report from a friend on a 28 car train.

Now that made for a magnficently beautiful/handsome train, over 1/4 mile long. But I wonder. Taxing on the locomotives and facilites, availbility of equipment and staffers and too-short station platforms--how long is it allowed to be?

Anybody know the maximum allowable length? Anybody seen more than 30 cars?

20-25 most cases.

I took the EB Canadian, departing Vancouver on Mother's day. There were 30 cars, 10 of them deadhead. But the attendant told me that they would all be full leaving out of Toronto.

The Canadian can be quite long during the summer season. While 30 cars is the usual maximum length, there was a 31 car train observed on May 26. I read somewhere that the HEP power provided by a single F40PH-2 was limited to 7 cars and an additional F40 could power another 12 cars. I don't know if this is true (it can't be that simple, can it?), but, if so, three F40's could run a train of 7+12+12=31 cars.

I suppose adding another F40 would increase the potential maximum even further. And, if the newer P42DC's were to become used on the Canadian, then the HEP could power even more cars.

Provision of HEP aside, there are operational quairks with operating behemoth trains, the two major ones being boarding (multiple station stops) and water/sanitation (rewatering cars, emptying retention tanks, where applicable).

Like John said its 20-25 cars long, sometimes more because of equipment deadheading, I've caught the Canadian more than once before, usually 3 (or 4 if required) F40PH-2's on the point.

Ken where do you go to catch the Canadian, because I go down to Davenport Diamond on the weekdays Tuesday, Thursday and Weekend Saturday to catch it going up the Newmarket Sub.

trainmaster_1 wrote:Ken where do you go to catch the Canadian, because I go down to Davenport Diamond on the weekdays Tuesday, Thursday and Weekend Saturday to catch it going up the Newmarket Sub.

Mike... I haven't caught The Canadian in many years - not since it departed Toronto around noon and took a straight shot up the Newmarket sub all the way to Washago. Back then I would go to a small park just north of the crossing of the Newmarket and York subs. If I did go looking for it today, it would probably be at the Langstaff GO station.

One thing about the deadheading that kind of creeped me out (but probably can't be helped) is that they put the dead heading cars (sleepers, at least in my case) in the middle of the train, so when you walk through, it is like a rolling version of "The Shining"

Slightly OT, but still interesting: the attendant told me that these cars are at the end of their expected life cycle, and are due for another round of refurbishment, and this next time they are suspecting that they will eliminate (or severely curtail) the berths in favor of more single or double bedrooms.

Personally, I'd like to see some double bedrooms more along the lines of the Amtrak Bedroom. Those single chairs in the double bedroom are a drag.

can't the deadheads be put at head end so platform work is easier? And also, is it necessary to provide HEP if no passengers are using the cars? I would guess the deadheads don't factor in to HEP calcs other than light.

updrumcorpsguy wrote:One thing about the deadheading that kind of creeped me out (but probably can't be helped) is that they put the dead heading cars (sleepers, at least in my case) in the middle of the train, so when you walk through, it is like a rolling version of "The Shining"

Slightly OT, but still interesting: the attendant told me that these cars are at the end of their expected life cycle, and are due for another round of refurbishment, and this next time they are suspecting that they will eliminate (or severely curtail) the berths in favor of more single or double bedrooms.

Personally, I'd like to see some double bedrooms more along the lines of the Amtrak Bedroom. Those single chairs in the double bedroom are a drag.

Normally all of the deadheading equipment is carried at the front of the train. Your's must have been an unusual experience. It's true that VIA is planning to rebuild the cars replacing the sections with more bedrooms. While the bedrooms have generally sold better than upper/lower berths, there is still a demand for them, with some trains selling out the berths before the single bedrooms (roomettes).

updrumcorpsguy wrote:One thing about the deadheading that kind of creeped me out (but probably can't be helped) is that they put the dead heading cars (sleepers, at least in my case) in the middle of the train, so when you walk through, it is like a rolling version of "The Shining"

Slightly OT, but still interesting: the attendant told me that these cars are at the end of their expected life cycle, and are due for another round of refurbishment, and this next time they are suspecting that they will eliminate (or severely curtail) the berths in favor of more single or double bedrooms.

Personally, I'd like to see some double bedrooms more along the lines of the Amtrak Bedroom. Those single chairs in the double bedroom are a drag.

Dead-headed equipment is normally carried ahead of the baggage car, but if some sleepers are being used in one direction (usually westbound) but not the other, they may be left in place for the next trip. I have seen this occasionally on the "Ocean" as well.

VIA Service Managers have told me that it is the Chateau sleepers that are planned for rebuilding into all-room cars. There is no specific configuration planned, probably due to the lack of funding at the moment. I have been told that the Manor sleepers will stay as they are because there is some demand for sections and roomettes. Four roomettes (Manor series) are about right, given the fact that crew members are assigned some of them. But eight (Chateau) are too many. Some sleepers in both Manor and Chateau series are getting retention toilets.

I do hope that VIA makes more drawing rooms or similar large rooms with two lowers. Neither my wife nor I are pleased with an upper berth. The point about the chairs is well taken. Although I find them comfortable, it is difficult to have a guest(s) in unless the bed is lowered - and that's not particularly comfortable. A lot of rail enthusiasts condemn the Renaissance sleepers, but I think the sofa is fabulous. If you don't have guests in, the middle portion folds down to become a table with indentations for drinks.

I saw a 30-car Canadian arriving in Toronto on the night of the 9th. Three F40's were in charge, and from what I could see in the windows, it appeared every car was well patronized.

Makes me depressed to see a measly 11-car Amtrak consist on the Lake Shore Limited here.....

I've heard they have had the plans for renovating the cars for quite some time (i.e. converting roomettes to bedrooms and/or sections to bedrooms). There's also plans for "all lower" bed configuration - with no upper berth. But it's all about funding. If the sections are removed, then you can take out the bathrooms at the end of the car for even more room - leaving or moving the shower of course.

Some VIA Heritage (Stainless Steel Budd Cars) already have retention toilets, getting over the age old myth that Amtrak put forth that it was not economical to add retention toilets to the equipment. Its puzzling how VIA can keep its Heritage (Stainless Steel Bud Cars) in service and in good condition, while Amtrak had other plans - discontinuance of such cars (selling, scrapping, etc.).

jp1822 wrote:I've heard they have had the plans for renovating the cars for quite some time (i.e. converting roomettes to bedrooms and/or sections to bedrooms). There's also plans for "all lower" bed configuration - with no upper berth. But it's all about funding. If the sections are removed, then you can take out the bathrooms at the end of the car for even more room - leaving or moving the shower of course.

Some VIA Heritage (Stainless Steel Budd Cars) already have retention toilets, getting over the age old myth that Amtrak put forth that it was not economical to add retention toilets to the equipment. Its puzzling how VIA can keep its Heritage (Stainless Steel Bud Cars) in service and in good condition, while Amtrak had other plans - discontinuance of such cars (selling, scrapping, etc.).

Indeed, some of the VIA cars (mainly some HEP-2, I believe) are ex-Amtrak coaches bought when Amtrak dumped the Heritage fleet.