MP-54 retirement

[quote="Dave Keller"]Trainspot:


The MP54s that were built in 1908 were as follows:
1005:2
1017:2
1400:2
1401-1450


Not to confuse anyone, but 1005:2 and 1017:2 were ex 1543 and 1423. These cars had the engineer stands removed and ran as motorized trailers.

Dave, I have 1543 as built in 1910. Do I have the wrong car for this?? It would not be hard to believe.

Bob Kingman

rrbob wrote:

Dave Keller wrote:Trainspot:


The MP54s that were built in 1908 were as follows:
1005:2
1017:2
1400:2
1401-1450


Not to confuse anyone, but 1005:2 and 1017:2 were ex 1543 and 1423. These cars had the engineer stands removed and ran as motorized trailers.

Dave, I have 1543 as built in 1910. Do I have the wrong car for this?? It would not be hard to believe.

Bob Kingman

Were there any other MP-54s that were renumbered?

Bob Kingman[/quote]

Were there any other MP-54s that were renumbered?[/quote]

I assume you mean other than the ones that were rehab'ed in 50's and 60's. That would take pages to do.

The 1000(2) series went from 1001-1017(2) and were ex 1611,1640,1663,1628,1543,1602,1627,1604,1591,1544,1617,866,891,837,868,917,1423.

Yes, the 800's and 900's are T54s. I'm not sure where the power trucks for them came from.

Bob Kingman

Hi Bob:

Good question.

This is the data I have on my roster. When I get home I'll check further and see if it lists what the ex-#'s were and what those build dates were.

It's highly possible that there's a discrepancy somewhere, whether in the roster or ?


Hi Frank:

The renumbering I mentioned was due to the fact that the cars numbered 1001, 1002, 1003, etc. were actually the class MP41 units. It appears that 1005 and 1017 must have had a mishap early on and those numbers were given to the MP54s. Or . . . .those cars were renumbered some time AFTER the MP41s were no longer in service, so their numbers were no longer in use.

As Bob mentioned, there was a MAJOR renumbering of MOST of the LIRR coaches (MU and steam) starting in December, 1954 as part of the LIRR's "modernization" program.

When a car was modernized, it was renumbered and given a "modernization number" painted in a round circle on the side of the car by the door. It did not match the road number, but rather, the number of the order in which the car was taken to be modernized, from what I am led to believe. (ex: modernization #54 was the 54th car to be modernized, regardless of its road number.)

MU cars numbered, for example, 1445 became 4445.

Steam cars numbered, for example, 5 became 7005.

There was a whole process involved and many cars were renumbered. Also, many cars were NOT renumbered, just to confuse the issue.

I'll check on the MP54 dates at lunchtime.

Dave Keller

Dave Keller wrote:Trainspot:

Oops . . . . There goes the mind again!

The car with the "Ladies Day'" sign is actually 4153. (Don't know where I got that other number from. Sorry about that!)

The shot that appears in my sequel book was photographed in 1962 at Jamaica. (This is what I get when I work from memory and do not have my facts before me!)

There may have been other cars with the sign, but I have not idea about that.

Frank:

The MP54s that were built in 1908 were as follows:
1005:2
1017:2
1400:2
1401-1450

The following were built in 1909:
1451:2
1452-1499

The rest were 1910 and later.

Dave Keller

Were there any 1908 MP-54s that survived into the 1960s?

OK guys . . . .Here’s what I’ve come up with:

1. Did any of the 1908 MP54s survive into the 1960s?

I have a photo of #1411 at Long Beach in 1962. I’m sure there were others.

2. Starting in 1950 the following 1908 MP54 cars had their controls removed and were re-classed MP54T (trailers):

1406, 11, 15, 21, 22, 28, 29, 33, 34, 37, 39, 50

3. NONE of this numbered series (1400-1450) were re-numbered in the LIRR’s Modernization Program. The only1908-vintage cars to be renumbered were the three “:2” cars and they weren't renumbered in the "modernization program" system.

4. 1005:2 was originally car 1442 and was renumbered when the controls were removed in the early 1950s.

5. 1017:2 was originally car 1423 and was renumbered when the controls were removed in the early 1950s.

6. 1400:2 was the FIRST MP54 car on the LIRR. (It was numbered “:2” because the LIRR already had, in service, a steam car built in 1907 with the road number of 1400. This steam car later was renumbered to 1451.)


The comment about one of the cars being ex-1543 was incorrect according to my roster. This WAS a 1910-vintage MP54 car but was not one of the 1908 replacement renumbers.

Dave Keller

Dave K.

While we are on the subject of MP-54's, weren't there a handful of MP-54's that were former PRR that were acquired by the LIRR ?

Hi Bill:

There were two (2) batches of Ex-PRR MP54s and one (1) batch of MPB54s thus:

1. #s 1135-1179, class MP54A1 built by the PRR in 1930 and used in LIRR service.

2. #s 1778-1783, class MP54A (built 1914). These were ex-PRR DC cars, #202, 204, 200, 203, 205, 201 (in order of LIRR re-numbering) which, along with two (2) combines (listed next) were originally used in Penn Station-Manhattan Transfer service. They were purchased by the LIRR in 1923.

3. Combine #s 1348, 1349, class MPB54 (built 1913) . These were ex-PRR DC car #s 4573, 4514, ex-class MPB54E and used along with cars listed in item #2 above in Penn Station-Manhattan Transfer service.

Dave Keller

[quote="Dave Keller"]Hi Bill:

There
3. Combine #s 1348, 1349, class MPB54 (built 1913) . These were ex-PRR DC car #s 4573, 4514, ex-class MPB54E and used along with cars listed in item #2 above in Penn Station-Manhattan Transfer service.

In Vincent Seyfried's LIRR book part 7, he says LIRR 1348-1349 are ex PRR 4513 and 4514???? Local service between NYP and Manhattan Transfer? I'm guessing Long Branch to Exchange Place train transfers?

Bob Kingman

There's obviously a typo on someone's roster, either the one I use or Vince's. The PRR #4573 vs. #4513 . . . . a 7 for a 1 . . . . who knows which one is correct.

My roster specifically says Manhattan Transfer to Penn Station service.

Can't tell you any more than what I have to work with.

After all . . . I vassunt dere!

Dave Keller

Hi Pappy:

I have several shots of different cars in that number sequence. Some have a large round window on the end door and some have a large square window.

The arched "rain-drip" that you mention not only appears on these cars but also appears on the double deckers.

But then . . . as the double deckers were also built by the Pennsy, this may have been one of their "trademark" design features.

Dave Keller

Hi Dave,
The book you mentioned is the one that is coming out, correct?
I did look through the one that came out last year. (1925-1975)

Yes . . .

The car with the "Ladies Day" sign will be in my upcoming book. (AS a matter of fact there are two: the close-up I mentioned earlier in this thread and an overall shot of a 2-car train at the Valley Stream Station taken in 1967.

The 2nd of the 2 cars has the "Ladies Day" sign and it's an arched roof car.

The roster shot mentioned above is a clerestory or "monitor" roof car.

So . . . there's 2 different cars that wore the sign. Unfortunately the shot at Valley Stream is too far away to read the car number. (But the Keystsones are visible on either side of the depot name!!)

Book is due out the week of August 15. If you'd like an autographed copy, contact me directly at: [email protected]

Dave Keller

Sorry for bumping up this thread but I have a few questions about the MP-54's:

Why were they named ping pong cars?

Did they sound similar to the pre-war NYC Subway Cars?

How fast could they go?