I always thought that to reach northern NJ / New York City for passengers, the LV routed trains over the PRR to Jersey City (PRR Exchange Place station) and later Manhattan (Penn Station). The switch from LV to PRR rails was originally at Metuchen but by 1900 changed to what LV called Newark Junction and now known as Hunter Tower on PRR - exactly the route where today's NJ Transit Raritan Valley Line trains switch from ex LV to ex PRR rails.
But I have seen two other things that have me confused:
(i) In the Lehigh Valley Railroad Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehigh_Valley_Railroad ), a few lines under the "20th Century" heading, it says " From the beginning, the LVRR's New York City passengers had used the Pennsylvania Railroad's terminal and ferry at Jersey City, but in 1913 the PRR terminated that agreement, so the LVRR contracted with the CNJ for use of its terminal and ferry, which was expanded to handle the increased number of passengers." Does anyone know about this? I'm confused.
Contradicting this, I also found a 1921 Official Guide to the Railways" link that shows the LV running direct to Manhattan. http://cprr.org/Museum/Books/I_ACCEPT_t ... e_1921.pdf See the page labeled page number 91 (which is page 121 of the pdf). It clearly shows a PRR routing - with the option at Manhattan Transfer of going to Penn Station NY or to PRR Exchange Place in Jersey City. The Guide has timetables from all over the LVRR system, and nothing showing service to CNJ Communipaw waterfront terminal passenger station in Jersey City.
All other LV passenger timetables I have found also list PRR Exchange place and/or (after the PRR tunnels to Penn Station opened) PRR Penn Station as the eastern terminus.
One other related issue is that on maps from ~100 years ago of the region just west of the CNJ Commnipaw and LV waterfront terminal show an LV "Coach Yard." https://mapmaker.rutgers.edu/HUDSON_COU ... ate27.html for the waterfront and https://mapmaker.rutgers.edu/HUDSON_COU ... ate18.html for the LV coach yard , among other things.
This is in the region of the large parking lot between todays Monitor St and Communipaw Ave. What LV coaches was it servicing?? It could have been servicing coaches that terminated at PRR Exchange Place Terminal at the waterfront. They would have had to reverse (with new power) to go up to PRR Journal Square, and then reversed again to take the National Docks (which was LV controlled) to get to the coach yard. Although once on the National Docks, they would have to go a few miles west before being able to reverse again to get to the LV and go east up and over the CNJ main to the LV coach yard. That sounds impractical.
If the passenger trains ended at the CNJ terminal, on one of the northernmost platforms, the train could have reversed to get to LV rails (which accessed the LV freight terminal just to the north), and kept going west a short bit to directly get to the coach yard. That makes more sense, but again I didn't think the LV sent passengers to the CNJ terminal (except for the one sentence I mentioned above from Wikipedia.)
Did the LV also have passenger service to its own Jersey City terminal (just north of Communipaw). That would have required ferries, etc. But the coach yard would make more sense where it is. Maybe it did? But I have never found any references to such in timetables, etc.
I'm sorry for confusing everyone on some arcane detail, but I like puzzling these things out....
JS
But I have seen two other things that have me confused:
(i) In the Lehigh Valley Railroad Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehigh_Valley_Railroad ), a few lines under the "20th Century" heading, it says " From the beginning, the LVRR's New York City passengers had used the Pennsylvania Railroad's terminal and ferry at Jersey City, but in 1913 the PRR terminated that agreement, so the LVRR contracted with the CNJ for use of its terminal and ferry, which was expanded to handle the increased number of passengers." Does anyone know about this? I'm confused.
Contradicting this, I also found a 1921 Official Guide to the Railways" link that shows the LV running direct to Manhattan. http://cprr.org/Museum/Books/I_ACCEPT_t ... e_1921.pdf See the page labeled page number 91 (which is page 121 of the pdf). It clearly shows a PRR routing - with the option at Manhattan Transfer of going to Penn Station NY or to PRR Exchange Place in Jersey City. The Guide has timetables from all over the LVRR system, and nothing showing service to CNJ Communipaw waterfront terminal passenger station in Jersey City.
All other LV passenger timetables I have found also list PRR Exchange place and/or (after the PRR tunnels to Penn Station opened) PRR Penn Station as the eastern terminus.
One other related issue is that on maps from ~100 years ago of the region just west of the CNJ Commnipaw and LV waterfront terminal show an LV "Coach Yard." https://mapmaker.rutgers.edu/HUDSON_COU ... ate27.html for the waterfront and https://mapmaker.rutgers.edu/HUDSON_COU ... ate18.html for the LV coach yard , among other things.
This is in the region of the large parking lot between todays Monitor St and Communipaw Ave. What LV coaches was it servicing?? It could have been servicing coaches that terminated at PRR Exchange Place Terminal at the waterfront. They would have had to reverse (with new power) to go up to PRR Journal Square, and then reversed again to take the National Docks (which was LV controlled) to get to the coach yard. Although once on the National Docks, they would have to go a few miles west before being able to reverse again to get to the LV and go east up and over the CNJ main to the LV coach yard. That sounds impractical.
If the passenger trains ended at the CNJ terminal, on one of the northernmost platforms, the train could have reversed to get to LV rails (which accessed the LV freight terminal just to the north), and kept going west a short bit to directly get to the coach yard. That makes more sense, but again I didn't think the LV sent passengers to the CNJ terminal (except for the one sentence I mentioned above from Wikipedia.)
Did the LV also have passenger service to its own Jersey City terminal (just north of Communipaw). That would have required ferries, etc. But the coach yard would make more sense where it is. Maybe it did? But I have never found any references to such in timetables, etc.
I'm sorry for confusing everyone on some arcane detail, but I like puzzling these things out....
JS
