Rotem Cars Discussion (new bi-level cars)

OldColonyRailfan wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 9:13 pm Happy New Years everyone! Rotems are now really starting to take over the sets.

calm down. The newer R cars are only covering the mess in 2 Yard in Readville......the trainsets keep getting shorter as we get newer R cars....

That's interesting. I thought that the train sets were getting longer with more and more Rotems. I need to get back to readville to check that out.

Not that it’s relevant here, but the new rotems are only displacing the k cars up north. The majority of the sets are 5 or 6 doubles. A few 7 and one 4 which is the 1851 set. Not sure what’s up with the other rotems that aren’t in service yet.

As a point of clarity, there are no 700s north. The only cars being displaced north are 1700 control cars.

Cars are getting longer I believe. There used to be quite a few 4 car bi-level sets but now there are only one or two like mentioned above. The new rotem blinds aren't replacing the 700s south (not yet at least), but I have seen sets with quite a few more rotems than usual (including one set that has 5 rotems of 6 cars!). They also seem to be replacing the 900s on the south side.

CRail wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 10:28 pm As a point of clarity, there are no 700s north. The only cars being displaced north are 1700 control cars.

do you know if they ever will displace the somewhat aged (in my opinion) 700s cars?

The 700s and 1700s have all just been rebuilt. They aren't going anywhere for a long time. I would assume the 900s are next to go for rebuild- they're starting to seem pretty tired with nearly opaque windows, very worn interiors, and none of the electronic signage that the rebuilds and newer cars have.

Im aware the 700s have been rebuilt. But the oldest K car rebuilds are almost 10 years old. Just to clarify, I meant displace the 700s cars to go up north, not retirement.

Their plan is to retire ALL flats, and they are not going to do that without 700s up north, because 900s are not enough to fill all sets, and they are CERTAINLY not going to send up new Rotems, even old(er) Rotems are a stretch. On top of that, as you said, the 900s will probably go out for rebuild soon. They really haven't aged well.

If I did my math correctly, the T could certainly move the 700s north as well to keep the north side entirely K cars. The # of seats on all 82 700 cars is greater than the 110ish (give or take) single levels up north. You'd see shorter sets, but greater capacity. On the cab car side however, they'd have to add a few rotems to the mix if they want to retire all the 1600s, since there isnt enough 1700s.

There are 23 active Kawasaki cab cars (24 once 1721 gets back), and the Northside needs only 20 Required. MBTA/Keolis could have a few extra Southside sets, which at that point, would be nearly identical to Northside sets, aside from newer Brokems taking the place of K-cars, that could be shipped up north if required, or up at BET waiting for an assignment. As Chris noted earlier, the 900s are most likely going to be sent out for rebuild and refurb within the next few years, as they are badly road-worn and are not/did not age(ing) well.

On capacity wise, the Northside would/should need or have a few rotems, because management would prefer to increase capacity on lines for rush-hour, where it is standing room only (on some trains). It would be beneficial, as one of the other statements from a while ago noted, to make a new unsolicited bid for Kawasaki for new cars, as they have proven to be reliable (excluding the 1701 incident), hard-working, and generally good cars, though old, even after being rebuilt with new, troubling tech.

MBTA went with new Korean-built Hyundai-Rotems because they were reported to have the best reliablity of the existing fleet; I don't suspect they'd be able to get away with another purchase without a competitive bid process, but if they did it'd almost certainly go to H-R again.
I would also think that with similar seat counts across the entire bilevel fleet, it's not a necessity to keep the different types strictly separated across the 2 sides of the operation.

OldColonyRailfan wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:46 am There are 23 active Kawasaki cab cars (24 once 1721 gets back), and the Northside needs only 20 Required. MBTA/Keolis could have a few extra Southside sets, which at that point, would be nearly identical to Northside sets, aside from newer Brokems taking the place of K-cars, that could be shipped up north if required, or up at BET waiting for an assignment. As Chris noted earlier, the 900s are most likely going to be sent out for rebuild and refurb within the next few years, as they are badly road-worn and are not/did not age(ing) well.

On capacity wise, the Northside would/should need or have a few rotems, because management would prefer to increase capacity on lines for rush-hour, where it is standing room only (on some trains). It would be beneficial, as one of the other statements from a while ago noted, to make a new unsolicited bid for Kawasaki for new cars, as they have proven to be reliable (excluding the 1701 incident), hard-working, and generally good cars, though old, even after being rebuilt with new, troubling tech.

North side needs 22 sets, not 20. Also, cars/locos WILL die, so numerous spare sets are available on both sides.


Also, I was bored and did more math for fun...
If we had all 33 900s, all 82 700s, all 24 1700s (incl. 1721 after it gets fixed), and an additional 9 1800s north side...
We could have 17 4 car bilevel sets and 16 5 car bilevel sets
4 car sets could have a minimum of 715 and a maximum of 723 seats
5 car sets could have a minimum of 897 and a maximum of 908 seats
Total of 26705 seats possible (33 900 - 178 seats each) (50 700 - 185 seats) (32 700A/B - 182 seats) (24 1700 - 175 seats) (9 1800 - 173 seats)

In comparison:
A 4 car mixed set like ran today (900 + 2 blind comets + a 1600/1700 cab) can have a minimum of 528 and a maximum of 607 seats
5 (+1 blind comet than the last) can have a minimum of 642 and a maximum of 734 seats
6 (+1 blind comet than the last) can have a minimum of 756 and a maximum of 861 seats
i did the math of the total seats using only north side cars as of 1/4 but i screwed up and gave up lol

I appreciate this AMAZING work Eamon, but my point is, the cab requirement could be dealt with using only K-Cars, and R-s for spares.

Thing is, you wouldn't need to assign K cars to scheduled trains and Rotems to spares. There's not really a point. Just send out a rotem or a k car the same way they decide if a bombardier or a k car gets sent out right now (its completely random!)

Bombers and K-cars use the same throttle and braking tech, as well as the bombers using outdated Computers and equipment. They want more R cars down south.