Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:14 pm JFJ: Was that the Playboy Great Gorge Ski Resort in McAfee, Sussex County, New Jersey? MACTRAXX

I believe so? I think it was somehow connected to the Lackawanna Cutoff if not part of the Cutoff already. I am trying to search it and can't find what I was talking about

The Playboy “resort” was at Great Gorge on the L&HR, two possible routings:
1. NYS&W via Sparta Junction which I believe was OOS at the time
2. EL via Andover
Neither involved the cutoff.

NY&LB wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:41 am The Playboy “resort” was at Great Gorge on the L&HR, two possible routings:
1. NYS&W via Sparta Junction which I believe was OOS at the time
2. EL via Andover
Neither involved the cutoff.

Just a "bunny Hop" from sparta.

You mean, how Gambling would devolve...

While this Times column does not relate to the Cutoff, there on one paragraph within it reflecting needless discussion and speculation regarding an Andover-Scranton "pipe dream" held by some in the railfan community:

Fair Use:

Right now, the White House is gearing up for the president’s first State of the Union address. His speechwriters are churning out drafts, gathering guidance from strategists and senior aides and contending with fervent pleas from every agency of the federal government for a paragraph in the speech — even a sentence — about their good works.

This whole Andover-Scranton dream arose from one such line in Amtrak's coloring book, Connect US.

Somehow, I think Mr. Grossman, who I've met face to face, also reads The Times, and like myself, holds the best outcome for the Cutoff is to become a nature trail. Further, like myself, I also think he holds that it's time to direct the discussion to the finishing of the Andover extension and bury the rest.

I think Joe has a few more "pressing" matters to address at this time than if his boyhood home has a passenger train. However, I would not rule out passenger rail getting a line of script in the SOTU.

How about a "name the trail" topic over at Rails and Trails Forum (can't be Lackawanna Trail as that name is already taken).

BTW&FWIW, this column is written by the attorney who successfully defended Gray Lady in the matter brought against her by Fox News star (or whatever she does nowadays) Sarah Palin.

I dunno about limiting the discussion to completing to Andover (keep hope alive as it were), but for the expense of refurbing the viaducts it would seem to make sense to me to extend NJT to Stroudsburg. From there to Scranton would be - - difficult. I know track is there, but the route is awfully twisty for even medium speed rail.

That "but for" above should be read as "but except for".

CharlieL wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:22 pm I dunno about limiting the discussion to completing to Andover (keep hope alive as it were), but for the expense of refurbing the viaducts it would seem to make sense to me to extend NJT to Stroudsburg. From there to Scranton would be - - difficult. I know track is there, but the route is awfully twisty for even medium speed rail.

Stroudsburg would be a reasonable terminus. Either that or Analomink. (Analomink leaves extra room for a yard track). It should help if the idea is Monroe County to NYC commuters to be just off 80.

I happen to live 2 minutes away from the current end of track (meaning, the spot where they stopped laying new rail as of a few years ago). This is where the tracks will cross "Brooklyn Rd" which is near the border of Hopatcong/Stanhope. This crossing will need to be reinstalled in order to reach Andover.

After seeing no activity here since I moved in 4 years ago, I can report that last weekend the concrete barriers were removed from the ROW entrances one each side of the road (they had been installed to prevent ATV use, but of course they were ineffective in this regard).

A NJ bus was parked next to the ROW, and a group of about 6-8 employees were out inspecting the bridge the lays just before the road). They also had chainsaws.

The next day, I checked back and noted that a large of number of trees and shrubbery was removed from the ROW, including many limbs that had fallen across the rails. This occurred on both the side of the road where the new rails were installed, as well as across the road where they will need to be re-laid.

The tracks that were installed a few years ago seem to still be in reasonable shape. They have concrete ties.

I can report more if I see further activity if there is interest.

Here is a Fair Use quotation from the material located by Mr. Dcell:

During his visit to Andover on Monday, U.S. Rep. Josh Gottheimer (NJ-5) called on New Jersey Transit and Amtrak to put aside bureaucratic stalling and immediately move forward with the Lackawanna Cut-off railway restoration project.

“There are zero options for folks in Sussex County to make their life easier and get on a train to get to work, or to see a family member,” he said. “I’ve heard from so many residents, businesses, and local elected officials about this issue, and of the urgent need for more transportation options to New York City from across Sussex. The Lackawanna Cut-off railway is a key part of the solution.”

It would certainly appear that this project is ready to move forth. Possibly a "new normal" of RTO3X for knowledge workers will prompt a demand for Warren County real estate. Commencement of the Gateway Tunnels will only add to the "doability" of residing.in Warren County.

Lest there be any doubt throughout this now eighteen year "epic", I've never been opposed to this logical extension considering the ROW was already there and in the public sector's hands.

Now resumption of intercity service to Scranton? That's a different story

You would need literal high-speed rail to make intercity service to Scranton-NYC be plausible.

High speed rail? You can certainly take the right of way west of its current terminus and install new concrete ties, welded rails and signals to make it 90+mph territory but the current NJT section is going to be slow going even with very few station stops. 4 hours one way is about the best Amtrak could manage IMO.

Dcell wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 7:44 pm High speed rail? You can certainly take the right of way west of its current terminus and install new concrete ties, welded rails and signals to make it 90+mph territory but the current NJT section is going to be slow going even with very few station stops. 4 hours one way is about the best Amtrak could manage IMO.

No need to exaggerate. Amtrak does far better than a 33-mph average speed on even its slowest operations. Now NJT might not breach 30 mph average speed on Dover "express" trains that make every stop between there and Summit, but what's to hold Amtrak back, particularly west of Dover?

Amtrakowitz makes a point. Didn’t they say that Amtrak wasn’t gonna make that many stops on this route regardless? I heard Newark, Dover, and somewhere else. (I forgot where exactly)

No need to exaggerate. Amtrak does far better than a 33-mph average speed on even its slowest operations. Now NJT might not breach 30 mph average speed on Dover "express" trains that make every stop between there and Summit, but what's to hold Amtrak back, particularly west of Dover?

Oh please. The issue isn't the number of stops…

- The line is full of curves between Newark and Dover
- There's only two tracks in lots of places
- During rush hour, Summit already sees 10 trains per hour (including 2 that express through it). How are you going to find room for an eleventh?

As far as Amtrak's average speed, the Capitol Corridor takes nearly two hours to cover 75 miles between San Jose and Martinez, so you might want to temper your expectations there. No need to dump on your fellow railroaders.