CR on the Southern Secondary

What if....the upper management at C&D, LLC, mentioned to Conrail (operator) & NJDOT (owner) that if C&D (parent of DD, DRRV, BRW, BDRV) was awarded the grant (which they were) then they could and would (but not before) consummate the deal to take over the central Jersey lines. With the grant in place, this may be the straw that breaks any impasse in the negotiations allowing the parent C&D to operate here.
Business is business and I'm sure talks have been positive between the parties involved. This grant may well be the official beginning of changes to come. Of course, the Surface Transportation Board will consider all information and make a final decision in the best interest of all parties involved (railroads, owners, and customers).

Just my .02 worth,
Chris

SA31 calling in Coast Line Dispatch. They will follow the next Westbound train. (4378)

CharlieL wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:27 pm No; it appears many state government documents from multiple departments were moved into a system called "SAGE" sometime in 2019. I can find no grant info after 2018. SAGE is available over the internet but you need a login and password to get in. Probably only for state employees and restricted on a business need. Would like to see the grant request but not worth my time and effort to file a FOIA request or track down a responsible person and ask. I think it will become apparent in the next few months.

Taxpayers be damned. We in gub'mint know what's best and those little people don't need to know what we're doin'.
Charlie I ran into the same thing. The SAGE system supposedly is for security, but it appears to really be for secrecy. Putting rail freight grant applications in the system is ridiculous at best.
Never looked into a FOIA request. Think I will.

Yesterday's ME-2 parking spot reminds me of the incident in early January of 2010. NS 3022 + 5 broke down after reaching the summit of the small hill just past MP48. This train would sit for 3 days until a rescue train from Browns was sent on a Sunday, iirc.

From 2010...http://njtwom.rrpicturearchives.net/sho ... id=1903372

And today....http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=5492313

Never looked into a FOIA request. Think I will.

Done. Easier than I thought it would be, but since it's Friday night they won't even see it until Monday at the earliest.

Wait a minute.

NJT owns Farmingdale to Freehold and the Southern from Red Bank to South Lakewood.

Unless they authorize a sale (which they almost certainly won’t) how is C&D supposed to take those lines over?

CharlieL wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:34 pm BTW, I have in the back of my mind that in 2017 DoD came out with a statement that it wanted ALL major installations to have rail access. JBMDL is certainly a major installation.

NJ wants asap the rails reconnect at Lakehust this is to prevent any BRAC closers do to rail connections.
JBMDL, is schedual to get the new KC46A Tankers this year. That's if they fix the issues there are having with QC. The other issues is the A/R system and cargo loading.
Side note: The 108th stop flying fighters in 1991 and fly KC-135R tankers. The KC-10's were suppose to go to boneyard but with KC46A issues are to stay in sevice! The other acft is C-17 which transport munitions and everything else!

Bracdude181 wrote:Wait a minute.

NJT owns Farmingdale to Freehold and the Southern from Red Bank to South Lakewood.

Unless they authorize a sale (which they almost certainly won’t) how is C&D supposed to take those lines over?

So did you just figure out that every time you claimed CR wants to sell the Southern, they couldn't because they don't own it.

CR and NJT have a series of contracts pertaining to Operating rights over various lines and who controls what aspect of each line. In 1983 (84) CR retained the right to be the sole freight operator on any line they sold NJT/NJDOT. Part of that agreement allows CR and NJT need to mutually agree to pass CR's rights as a freight operator to a third party. ( To my knowledge, in 1998 CR and NJT transferred CR's rights to NS for the Morris & Essex, Gladstone, and Morristown Line, then those rights were again transferred to C&D when they leased the Washington Sec) In a situation like this CR will probably look to lease their rights as freight operator to C&D. NJT would have to sign off, since for the most part they are the RoW owner. I don't think anyone here is privy to the negations, so there really aren't any details until something hits the STB ( interchange, trackage rights, ect). This project would/could be a game changer as now NJT wouldn't have to host a round trip freight train one or two days a week. Perhaps the RoW clearing on the Southern was for a hi-rail trip.

@Tanker1497 Guess that explains why they cut down the trees on the MDL siding recently. Even with the possibility of a BRAC, what good is rail service to MDL now? Earle I understand because they manufacture weapons and having that one rail connection with Conrail could come in handy in case we go to war with another country or something. Aside from the aforementioned boxes they get shipped in by truck I’m not sure what they could do with rail service...

From what I understand, and it makes sense, having rail access to a base, even if not in general use, is part of force readiness posture. Makes sense. Would take time to restore or create in time of a crisis, time which might not be available, as well as using resources which might be needed elsewhere.

@CR7876 The freight rights thing is what I meant when I said they wanted to sell the Southern. Sorry, could’ve worded that better.

I do know that Conrail has tried to get rid of Browns and it’s associated trains for quite a while. (Since at least 2005) For whatever reason Conrail thinks Browns makes them no money, and it seems they only want to transfer cars to Browns rather than run the whole yard. Same goes for Metuchen, although they are in a slightly different situation.

Numerous potential buyers for Browns and all its connecting tracks have come and gone. Up until now I thought any negotiations with Chesapeake and Delaware never went past the “talking” phase, but this grant might mean this isn’t the case. Rumors about a takeover have been circulating among area crews and railfans for at least two years now.

Are they really gonna take over Browns and all its locals? If so, why? What does that mean for Seashore Lines when they eventually get going? What is C&D gonna do down here? What does all this mean for Conrail? Will C&D do whatever is necessary to bring Plate F cars into Browns?

Truthfully, unless C&D can get some more customers in this area, a takeover may not be worth their time. The grant thing says they want to pour over 4 million into this area, and if that’s track related they will need much more than that. The Southern Secondary and the Freehold Industrial have areas of track that are downright dangerous!

@Charlie If MDL is gonna get service again now is a pretty good time to start working on it. Conrail will eventually have to restore service to Lakehurst for Seashore Lines, if not to turn around there. The MDL Siding is really not in terrible shape and could likely be fixed for cheap. Just needs a good cleaning, new ties, and better signage at the grade crossings. Depending on how often they’d get service, maybe replace the rails too? Might not be necessary.

As I’ve mentioned I’d like to see them get boxcars full of those crates they get in by truck. Not sure what the crates are for but satellite images show lots of them inside the base, stored near two aircraft hangers.

Question? When did the box car and center beam move from Cross st? I rode buy around 10am not in sight. Did I miss a post?

Took a two minute walk from the Lakehurst west to just before the runaround track. Don't mine my mug in the beginning, I forget of how to use the gopro 2 minutes after I think I know. I don't edit my videos any more takes to much time. I was surprized it was a video and not 3 shot clips! Anyway you can't see much but you can see they did not clear the siding. Yet! They also did not do anything west of Whitesville road. They may have a equipment issue?

@Tanker1497 They moved those cars a few weeks ago. SA31 got to cross Street early and moved the cars at a very slow speed to Woodhaven. They haven’t moved since. Not sure why the centerbeam is still there as it looked like it was in good shape. Can’t say the same for the boxcar.

Edit: Nice video. Not sure why they didn’t go past Whitesville yet.