AAPRCO Convention: October 7-9, 2005 at Halifax, NS

The 28th annual convention of the American Association of Private Railroad Car Owners Inc (AAPRCO) is scheduled for October 7-9, 2005 at Halifax, Nova Scotia. Anticipated participation is about 30 cars. Many car owners usually sell some accomodations on their cars to/from the convention.

Current plans call for an Amtrak & Via special train departing Chicago, traveling to Halifax and returning to Chicago. Cars from the eastern USA and Canada will be allowed to join the special train in Montreal; they would then be set out in Montreal on the return. The convention hotel will be the Westin Nova Scotian which adjoins the VIA rail station. Look for the special train to follow one route eastward and a differing route westward, where possible. Look for some unusual/rare mileage, away from current Via routes. Two examples I've heard mentioned are:

-- Running along the north shore from Montreal to Quebec, with a night parked down by the St Lawrence River in Quebec.

-- Running westward from Halifax along the former CP route across northern Maine back to Montreal.

http://www.aaprco.com

Rats I wish It was in Chicago then I would see some good PV's. Also why is it never in Chicago?

AmtrakFan

-- Running along the north shore from Montreal to Quebec, with a night parked down by the St Lawrence River in Quebec.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Wonder what line they will use to park down by the St. Lawrence?

The track along the St Lawrence on the south side the Ocean used to reach the Levis Station is gone. Abandoned around 1998.

I believe CN still has a line east from Sainte Foy along the River and CP (now Quebec-Gatineau) had a tunnel down to Wolf’s Cove through the rock cliffs. Don’t know if the tunnel is still used or not.

CP once operated passenger specials “Boat Trains” from Wolfs Cove to Montreal Windsor Station that connected with their Trans Atlantic “Empress” Liners. [/quote]

Here is the latest PROPOSAL for the AAPRCO 2005 convention special train ("The Scotian Maple Leaf"):

Two units can handle up to 24 cars; three units can handle maximum consist of 30 cars.

SAT OCT 01: Originate train at Chicago Union Station. Chicago to Port Huron via Elsdon Yard, GTW and Battle Creek. At Port Huron, remove Amtrak units and add Via units. Candian Customs and Immigration at Sarnia. Park overnight at location TBD in London, ON.

SUN OCT 02: London to Montreal via Guelph and Toronto. Overnight at Via's MMC. Add eastern cars. [Eastern cars are those that arrived on Amtrak's Adirondack or other trains.]

MON OCT 03: Propose routing eastward via Sherbrooke and former CP main line thru northern Maine. Overnight at McAdam, NB. [Issues with US Customs and Immigration due to crossing tru Maine; FRA waiver needed to operate Via locomotives in USA.]

TUE OCT 04: McAdam NB to St John via New Brunswick Southern, thence over CN to Moncton and onward to Truro. Overnight at Truro.

WED OCT 05: Truro to Sydney. Overnight at suitable location at or near Sydney. [Assumes line to Sydney is still in service.]

THU OCT 06: Sydeny to Truro to Halifax. Park 13 cars on Track 4; park balance of cars on Track 5.

FRI OCT 07 thru SUN OCT 09: AAPRCO convention in Halifax. Westin Nova Scotian is convention headquarters.

MON OCT 10: Early morning departure from Halifax. Propose to operate via Edmundston. Overnight at location TBD, possibly Charny across the St Lawrence River from Quebec City. [National Holiday: Thanksgiving Day in Canada.]

TUE OCT 11: Propose operate on CN line on north side of the river via Hervey and Point-Aux-Trembles. Upon arrival at Montreal, proceed thru Central Station to MMC where eastern cars will be setout. Proceed west to Toronto. Overnight at TMC. [Eastern cars are those who plan to leave Montreal via Amtrak's Adirondack or other trains.]

WED OCT 12: Depart Toronto (TMC) via Bayview to London and onto Port Huron. US Customs and Immigration at Port Huron. Remove Via units; add Amtrak units. Operate via GTW to Detroit via the Mount Clemens Subdivision to the Amtrak station and thence over the regular Amtrak route to Chicago Union Station. Special train terminates at Chicago Union Station.

Keep in mind this is the proposal; much may change between now and October 1st, 2005.

The latest information on the AAPRCO 2005 convention is online at

http://www.aaprco.com/convention/2005/index.html

Look under "Special Train" for the routing/schedule proposal.

There is capacity for 30 cars on the special train.

Via and AAPRCO officlals recently met at Montreal and worked out the details (routing, schedule, insurance, security, cost, etc.) of hosting the APPRCO 2005 convention at Halifax and operating a special train of 30 private car routed Port Huron - Montreal - Campbellton - Truro - Sydney - Halifax - Ste Foy - Toronto - Port Huron.

Detailed routing and schedule are online at:

http://www.aaprco.com/convention/2005/index.html

On August 1st, AAPRCO officials canceled their plans to hold the association's 2005 convention at Halifax NS, on October 6-9th, with an Amtrak and Via Rail Canada special train from Chicago to the convention and return.

AAPRCO is finalizing plans to hold the convention in the southwestern USA during the same time frame.

The Via bureacrats who tried to screw AAPRCO private car owners have now screwed themselves - and certain businesses in and around Halifax - out of considerable revenue.

Thanks for the update Jack. For those of us in the dark, is anyone able and willing to divulge the conditions VIA tried to impose that resulted in the cancellation of the Halifax trip?

As told to car owner members by AAPRCO leadership:

Highly inflated cost per mile for Via special train ... new cost "surprises" surfaced at the last minutes of negotiations.

Insurmountable liability indemnification requirements and other insurance demands from Via.

Via notified Transport Canada of the special train and invited them to inspect the convention special train, prior to departure, knowing full well that all cars would be compliant with Amtrak & FRA requirements, but probably not compliant with Transport Canada's requirements. Cars not in complinace would be set out from the consist of the special train ... and thus would be unable to get to the convention in Halifax.

Via wanted car owners and their crews (stewards, chefs and attendants) to complete a training course, at car owners' expense, on Via operating and safety procedures ... and to pass a test at completion of this course.

jhdeasy wrote:Via notified Transport Canada of the special train and invited them to inspect the convention special train, prior to departure, knowing full well that all cars would be compliant with Amtrak & FRA requirements, but probably not compliant with Transport Canada's requirements. Cars not in complinace would be set out from the consist of the special train ... and thus would be unable to get to the convention in Halifax.

I'm curious: If the cars are not up to Transport Canada's requirements, why *should* they have been be allowed to run?
What benefit to Via would there be to run cars could cause them legal grief if anything untoward had occurred?
Similarly, Via Rail's equipment is probably not fully compliant with FRA requirements. Would the U.S. would allow *those* cars to run on U.S. tracks? Probably not, I think.

Well I am dissapointed this happened VIA just shot themself in the foot.

downbeat wrote:

jhdeasy wrote:Via notified Transport Canada of the special train and invited them to inspect the convention special train, prior to departure, knowing full well that all cars would be compliant with Amtrak & FRA requirements, but probably not compliant with Transport Canada's requirements. Cars not in complinace would be set out from the consist of the special train ... and thus would be unable to get to the convention in Halifax.

I'm curious: If the cars are not up to Transport Canada's requirements, why *should* they have been be allowed to run?
What benefit to Via would there be to run cars could cause them legal grief if anything untoward had occurred?
Similarly, Via Rail's equipment is probably not fully compliant with FRA requirements. Would the U.S. would allow *those* cars to run on U.S. tracks? Probably not, I think.

That is a valid question that does not have a simple answer.

During the past 5 years, Via has moved a number of private cars on their regularly scheduled trains. Our MOUNT VERNON is one of those private cars. In general, these private cars are owned by Americans, rather than Canadians, and are engineered to meet US FRA and Amtrak requirements. These cars probably don't meet Transport Canada requirements pertaining to items such as window glazing, emergency signs in English & French, fire retardent fabrics, emergency tool kits, etc. COMPLIANCE WITH TRANSPORT CANADA REQUIREMENTS HAS NOT BEEN AN ISSUE UNTIL NOW. Via seems to have taken the position that this is a special train of American private cars, so things are somehow different. As a result of this and other issues that separated the two parties, Via will lose several hundred thousand dollars revenue as a result of the cancellation of this special train. This $ will now go to Amtrak rather than Via.

downbeat wrote:I'm curious: If the cars are not up to Transport Canada's requirements, why *should* they have been be allowed to run?

That's a very good question. I don't have the answer, but VIA does routinely allow Amtrak qualified private cars to accompany its trains across Canada without the need for government inspections or special crew training. I suspect it was simply the large number of cars involved here that precipitated someone's thinking that extra measures were needed.
[edit]This post was sent before seeing Jack Deasy's reply shown above.[end edit]