by ExCon90
This has been discussed to death. Economics and regulation made it impossible for a private company to make a profit on passenger operations -- advantages or disadvantages of different types of equipment were immaterial.
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gokeefe wrote:There's an unfortunate reason for that. Elsewhere, high-speed routes follow "greenfield" alignments specifically designed not to have restrictive curves that require tilting (shows what it is to have money and power, and the will to use both -- I'm not recommending untrammeled exercise of government power, just taking note of it). Our problem here is to build a high-speed line through affluent developed suburban communities in certain well-known counties, notably in Maryland, New York, and Connecticut.adamj023 wrote:The new train is quite frankly a revolutionary design in that it incorporates both articulated trainsets with an active tilting system. This particular combination has not been done anywhere else in the world in high speed operations.
ExCon90 wrote:This has been discussed to death. Economics and regulation made it impossible for a private company to make a profit on passenger operations -- advantages or disadvantages of different types of equipment were immaterial.there was an interesting article in this month's trains magazine talking about how short distance freight and passenger share a lot of the same similarities and infrastructure needs. this is why FEC got into the passenger business, they run a scheduled, short haul railroad. while running short haul freight may not make passenger rail profitable, it certainly has the potential to mitigate its losses if some of the infrastructure is then cross-subsidized.
gokeefe wrote:Europe has precisely the same problems with real estate and alignment that is just as expensive and (even worse) chock full of layer after layer of ancient ruins.Mr. Gokeefe,
In some cases the Europeans (and lately the Chinese) punt and build a high speed terminal outside the urban core (St. Pancras in London). In other situations (Germany) the urban core was bombed so badly that the opportunity arose to build new through the middle of the city (Munich is a perfect example).
Realignment is not a joke anywhere and alignment issues are often controversial. In China they take your house and might pay you if you keep quiet. In Europe and the U.S. it's a very different story.
Measuring the efficiency of the Northeast Corridor by top speed alone is in my opinion always a mistake. What makes the NEC so special is the mixed traffic operations to include a nearly infinite combination of power, motor configurations (EMUs etc), equipment speed ratings, agencies, freight operators, labor unions and even signal systems.
You simply will not find a comparable peer anywhere else in the world. Everyone else mitigates complexity through temporal/spatial separation, uniform equipment, uniform construction, uniform signals, single agency operators and/or single mode.
adamj023 wrote:The Avelia Liberty doesn’t improve existing infrastructure bottlenecks.Improved power to weight ratio will enhance reliability and performance on the power distribution network. That is definitely an existing infrastructure bottleneck.
bostontrainguy wrote:Ain’t it amazing how much easier it is to have a double level train, even a HSR one, if you’re not limited to having only high level platforms at your train stations! There’s a reason why much of Europe is standarding on lower platform heights..... How about this? It's the new French version of the Avelia but it's bi-level. They appear to be about the same height but don't know.
http://railcolornews.com/2018/07/26/fr- ... -for-sncf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
electricron wrote:Ain’t it amazing how much easier it is to have a double level train, even a HSR one, if you’re not limited to having only high level platforms at your train stations! There’s a reason why much of Europe is standarding on lower platform heights.....Europe does not prioritize handicapped accessibility in Intercity passenger rail to the same extent that we do in the U.S.
electricron wrote:If NJ Transit can run bi-level trains into NYC on high level platforms, why cant Amtrak?bostontrainguy wrote:Ain’t it amazing how much easier it is to have a double level train, even a HSR one, if you’re not limited to having only high level platforms at your train stations! There’s a reason why much of Europe is standarding on lower platform heights..... How about this? It's the new French version of the Avelia but it's bi-level. They appear to be about the same height but don't know.
http://railcolornews.com/2018/07/26/fr- ... -for-sncf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The European Union Commission issued a TSI (Technical Specifications for Interoperability) on 30 May 2002 (2002/735/EC) that sets out standard platform heights for passenger steps on high-speed rail. These standard heights are 550 and 760 mm (21.7 and 29.9 in) .
jamesinclair wrote:How many times have you ridden an NJT or LIRR bi-level with luggage?electricron wrote:If NJ Transit can run bi-level trains into NYC on high level platforms, why cant Amtrak?bostontrainguy wrote:Ain’t it amazing how much easier it is to have a double level train, even a HSR one, if you’re not limited to having only high level platforms at your train stations! There’s a reason why much of Europe is standarding on lower platform heights..... How about this? It's the new French version of the Avelia but it's bi-level. They appear to be about the same height but don't know.
http://railcolornews.com/2018/07/26/fr- ... -for-sncf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The European Union Commission issued a TSI (Technical Specifications for Interoperability) on 30 May 2002 (2002/735/EC) that sets out standard platform heights for passenger steps on high-speed rail. These standard heights are 550 and 760 mm (21.7 and 29.9 in) .
I think the optimal solution to ADA would be to have a single level cafe car in the middle, and single-level cars on either side of it. This would allow mobility limited customers maximum flexibility (ie, 3 cars at their full disposal). Cars towards the ends of the train could be bi-level.
This is actually superior to using low-level platforms with gangways on the second level (ie, California Car) because those with mobility issues are limited to the car they boarded into.