Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

I read the article linked, about another state where they are storing cars, the anti-storage group pestered the owner of the cars, who requested the railroad move the cars (where nobody would complain). Then the railroad just brought in other cars from someone else to store. I think that is brilliant!

CP4743 wrote:

Roscoe P. Coaltrain wrote:Someone said this is part of a shakedown routine, as in if you pay us enough money, we move the problem railcars elsewhere. Supposedly, it's been done before in the Chicago area already. So who knows. Desperate financial times often call for desperate tactics.

Governor Cuomo is making statements with absolutely no grasp on the facts. Clearly he is on the side of the trail nuts since he is strongly in favor of tearing up the tracks between Tupper Lake and Lake Placid.

The leader of the trail nuts in the Adirondack Scenic RR debacle is a *huge* Cuomo supporter and Financial contributor. The only trail that is solid in that case is the money trail.

SNCRR is offering a Saturday only Snow Train for Jan-March 2018. The website seems to have it billed as Snow Test. Full route with no intermediate stops, leave Saratoga at 11AM, back by 4:15 PM. Also cheaper fares than the summer runs. Seems like a better idea than last winter's $1,000+ weekend excursion idea.

CP4743 wrote:
Governor Cuomo is making statements with absolutely no grasp on the facts. Clearly he is on the side of the trail nuts since he is strongly in favor of tearing up the tracks between Tupper Lake and Lake Placid.

That's pretty much standard operating procedure for Chairman Cuo-Mao. I mean his excuse for destroying what made the NYS Fairgrounds unique was so "it could be used year round" ... never mind that it already IS used year round. Nobody anywhere was brave enough to call him out on that.

The state is at it again:

https://www.stb.gov/filings/all.nsf/ba7 ... enDocument" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CPSmith wrote:The state is at it again:

https://www.stb.gov/filings/all.nsf/ba7 ... enDocument" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Adirondack Park 6.1 million acres, 10,000 ponds and lakes, 30,000 miles of rivers and streams, larger than Yellowstone, Glacier, Grand Canyon and Great Smokey Mountain Parks combined - and they still feel the need to force out a railroad of less that 30 miles length. I don't know whether "steamroller" "railroaded" "authoritarian" "heavy-handed" or any one of a dozen other words best describes it but the end result is the same.

If it were not for family I would be gone from this wretched state so fast!!!

only reason the railroad wants the branch is not for railroad but for storage of tank cars , something outside scope of what state park lands are for.
add to that the questionable stability of Saratoga and North Creek (aka Iowa pacific) it is no surprise NYS is objecting to bankrupt Iowa Pacific storage of cars that may or may never be moved.

As if the mere presence of these cars is causing the ENTIRE park to wither until nothing is left but 6.1 million acres of barren, sterile desert...

DutchRailnut wrote:only reason the railroad wants the branch is not for railroad but for storage of tank cars , something outside scope of what state park lands are for.
add to that the questionable stability of Saratoga and North Creek (aka Iowa pacific) it is no surprise NYS is objecting to bankrupt Iowa Pacific storage of cars that may or may never be moved.

This is the EXACT misinformation "Fake News" that the environmental extremists are putting out. Yes, Iowa Pacific has some financial issues. That has been publicized all over. But the S&NC is still an active operation with a potential future. The train to Christmas Town did pretty well considering you had to drive into Stony Creek to ride it. It brought a decent number of tourists into that part of Warren County at a slow time of year. This is exactly why Warren County purchased this track. And S&NC is serving a good purpose.

The tailings are still up at Tahawus and even though there are many who believe they are of no value, they do have value as a construction material and what someone pays for them has nothing to do with collecting transport fees. If the tailings were given away S&NC would make the same fee as if they were sold. As long as tracks go to Tahawus, the potential exists to move the tailings out by rail. Stone is being moved from Comstock, NY by rail and barge so the market exists for stone from that general area. While S&NC waits for an opportunity to move tailings, they want to earn some money by storing cars on sidings and yard tracks. Not a big deal since this is private property hidden from view.

If Cuomo is REALLY interested in the appearance of the Adirondack Park, he should be focused on cleaning up the mine site at Tahawus by moving out the tailings by rail and then setting up a passenger train to take hikers into the back country like the Alaska RR does.

I've never heard of a state actively working so hard to rip up track. Your tax dollars at work right there.

The Adirondack Park isn't really a state park anyways.

It's a forest preserve and the state only controls about half of the land within its boundaries. The rest are used for homes, businesses, private forestland, farming, etc. There are highways, airports, and rail lines within the park. There is even some industrial activity within the borders of the Adirondacks, with lumber the most notable these days. But for decades after founding, much of the nation's iron ore came out of the Adirondacks along with other smaller operations like paper mills.

I don't see why storing idle rolling stock temporarily is any more against the principles of the park than say running a grocery store in Lake Placid is. As long as it's not unduly harmful to the environment (And since we're talking empty rolling stock, that seems reasonable to assume in this situation), it seems fine in my book from an environmental viewpoint.

The Adirondack Almanack web site is reporting that the Union Tank Car Company has requested that the 65 tank cars currently stored on the S & NC be shipped back. Looks like someone at the state level got to the right person at Berkshire Hathaway. Follow the money, I say.

The Adirondack Almanack has been publishing an incredible amount of vitriol, hyperbole, and just plain fake news regarding the car storage, the S & NC, and Ed Ellis. The average reader most likely takes this rubbish as "fact".

It is a shame.

Well, I called that one.

Follow the money.

The Adirondack Almanac web site is reporting that the NY State Comptrollers office threatened to pull the NY State pension funds that that were invested in Berkshire Hathaway, a substantial sum, unless the stored tank cars were removed.

Bingo.

Dirty politics at the highest level.

The S & NC just can't catch a break.

There's a lot of money in the Adirondacks, and the people with that money want their forest to themselves. We're lucky they deign to let us visit the high peaks...

Did the snow train actually run this past Saturday?